Graduation: Discussion of the Finale

[lunchmeat]

Guess we ought to go ahead and get set up. Please hold off on spoilers until the show is underway Friday, 7 Sept.

Since I don't have Disney where I am and I wanted to go play tourist anyway, I'm borrowing a car and have a hotel with the Disney Channel on their cable picked out, near my destination.

[jeriddian]

If anybody has anything in terms of spoilers, please use the spoiler text protocol as listed in the "how to" forum". Thank you.

[campy]

All I want to say right now without spoiling anything is that Ron's last line of dialog in the finale is officially my favorite moment in the entire run of the show. :D

[TheGreenMagic]

"No, it's cool. I'm way good at keeping secrets unless, you know, it's something really juicy."

But no, seriously, I searched for those spoilers for reasons all my own, but I have no intention of spoiling it for anyone else. Well, all right, I will say this. Graduation is everything a series finalé for Kim Possible should be. So the Drama, eat your nonexistent heart out.

Just for safety's sake... Perhaps this thread should be a sticky or whatever until Friday?

[Cloud23465]

I can wait.. I've seen graduation (yes, I cheated and peeked and found it... I couldnt wait anymore) But my lips are sealed.... All's im going to say is... get ready to laugh :biggergrin:

[GoTeamGirl]

I can't wait. But I'll have to. I probably won't see the episode until later Friday night or late Saturday.

[Mike_Industries]

Yeah I took a peak last night... But I'm not one for spoilers. I just may not remember it clearly now... But yes, I agree lets respect wishes of others and not spoil the fun for everybody else.

[Cloud23465]

I was very happy with the way everything went and happy with the way everything turned out. The writers did a freakin' awesome job . http://www.globaljusticealliance.com/board/images/star3.gifhttp://www.globaljusticealliance.com/board/images/star2.gif and :thumbup::thumbup: (yes I'm amping this up because it's that good in my book :biggergrin:)

[AinoMinako]

I held out until the day before StD premiered. I blame the SCC. I'm planning on staying as spoiler-free as possible this time. It's much more interesting when you don't know what's going to happen.

[kyojikasshu]

I held out until the day before StD premiered. I blame the SCC. I'm planning on staying as spoiler-free as possible this time. It's much more interesting when you don't know what's going to happen.

I definitely agree with that. The promos may have teased me, but I definitely want to wait until it actually airs to see it and find out for myself!

[jeriddian]

"No, it's cool. I'm way good at keeping secrets unless, you know, it's something really juicy."

But no, seriously, I searched for those spoilers for reasons all my own, but I have no intention of spoiling it for anyone else. Well, all right, I will say this. Graduation is everything a series finalé for Kim Possible should be. So the Drama, eat your nonexistent heart out.

Just for safety's sake... Perhaps this thread should be a sticky or whatever until Friday?

I will do that. :)

[jeriddian]

As noted, this thread wil be a sticky until after the Friday Premiere of the episode. If you have seen the episode elsewhere and wish to comment on it here, PLEASE use the spoiler text colors as per the instructions in the geenral annoucements forum. I will not forbid you to post spoiler material, but I do storngly discourage for now. It's only two more days now guys. We can wait that long.:)

[fryfanSpyOrama]

Did anyone notice on the promo for Graduation that Jason Marsden's voice is heard, talking about graduation. Is it possible that Felix may make an appearance?

[Fireand'chutes77]

Did anyone notice on the promo for Graduation that Jason Marsden's voice is heard, talking about graduation. Is it possible that Felix may make an appearance?
Possible? We seem him in class with Kim.

[Cloud23465]

-Warnng! side splitting laughter and Awes may suddely occur during tonights showing you have been warned! (evil laugh)-

anyways...
Well with only ...uh...2 and 1/2 hours left till we go live on this episode I'd figure i'd get the party started old school yo! :laugh: Im gettting my fingers warmed up for my review and responces by my fellow board members.

[campy]

Is this thread necessary? I thought the sticky thread started earlier in the week was intended for discussion of the episode. :errr:

[jeriddian]

Good point. I'll merge them.

[BluetoothThePirate]

And it is ON ladies and gentlemen. Possibledamerung. Let the commencement commence!

[campy]

Well, we never did find out how Dementor's killer mutant plant scheme turned out. I guess it was self-foiling. Maybe Drewbie will have better luck.

[Fireand'chutes77]

"...I kinda miss the explosion."

It's ON! :biggergrin:

[jeriddian]

Let history unfold.........

[Cloud23465]

"...I kinda miss the explosion."

It's ON! :biggergrin:

Uh... This is camping huh? or did you manage to talk them out of it? I'm shocked your here.:confused:

Well that was anti-climatic.....brrrrrrrringgg:laugh:

[Fireand'chutes77]

"...I kinda miss the explosion."

It's ON! :biggergrin:

Uh... This is camping huh? or did you manage to talk them out of it? I'm shocked your here.:confused:

Well that was anti-climatic.....brrrrrrrringgg:laugh:
Dad came home later than expected. I think we're leaving in about 15 minutes.

[campy]

Well, part one is in the books. Looks like the aliens don't like golf courses for some reason. I for one find them more sympathetic already.

[Cloud23465]

"...I kinda miss the explosion."

It's ON! :biggergrin:

Uh... This is camping huh? or did you manage to talk them out of it? I'm shocked your here.:confused:

Well that was anti-climatic.....brrrrrrrringgg:laugh:
Dad came home later than expected. I think we're leaving in about 15 minutes.

Nice... at least your not totally left hanging as to whats happening... drag it out as long as you can so you can see everything :innocent:

[campy]

Having seen it on the Youtube, it certainly works much better without the 'next time' and 'previously' bits of the two-episode version. I wonder what the iTunes release will have?

[BluetoothThePirate]

The producers said Warhoc was a "serious" bad guy, but he is actually quite funny. "Denial. It's more than just a river on a planet we now control."

[Cloud23465]

Ron... just flying around talking to the bad guy like nothings happening and this guy is his friend... its soooo funny i cant breath

[canuck31003]

Wow!!! I thought the finale was great, at least on par with So the Drama, maybe even better. :)

Things I liked off the top of my head, in no particular order: cameos of past characters; Ron stepping up at the end--I was caught totally off guard. I thought it was great that Ron finally fully realized his monkey powers (awesome!) yet still maintained his essential Ronness. :P

I also liked how Drakken saved the world, and though I've never thought there was any Shego-Drakken romance before it didn't bother me that the writers ended it that way.

I did think Barkin panicking was kind of out of character, though.

[jeriddian]

Initial thoughts:........IT ROCKED!!!.........incredibly beautiful....... The true beauty of this finale to me is how they kept the magic of the series so alive throughout. It was a tremendously well done finale, balancing all of the elements together flawlessly. The humor was maintain effortlessly throughout and did not spoil the more tender and serious moments, yet those moments did not bog the whole storyline down either. True to form, they maintain the relationship values of Kim and Ron without getting too shippy. The shippy moments are kept brief, as is the practice of the series, and Disney in general. The ending left things quite open ended, allowing it to be possible to pick the series up easily in the future in the college years. Several interpretations are possible. It could go in several different directions. Now for some views on points of the episode(s).

Barkin did two senior years in high school? That sounds a lot like Brick doesn’t it? But then he says he dated the most popular girl in school at the time, was the star player on the football team, and also saved the world a couple of times? And he’s not going to tell Ron because it’s on a need to know basis only? What is with that? And what happened to the girl? Why is Barkin not with her anymore? That may be why he’s lamenting about things going downhill after high school. And then he says "It's downhill from here, sonny Jim."........"Sonny, Jim"? Why does he say that?

The Keppler makes a return in a new version 2.0., for good reason.

And now I think that the writer’s listened to the chat rooms and finally gave MrsDrP. her name as Slim calls her "Annie". Now it’s canon.

Then Duff Killigan comes up with the line "Don't go all William Wallace on me." Hilarious! What a Mel Gibson retort.

Now that Kim’s graduating, her exploits are starting to really catch up. Kim's Fame starts to catch up with her.

The goodbye to Middleton high was touching.

It's great to have both Nana and Slim in the episode.

Kim says she’s ready for anything they throw at her, and then the house gets blown up (again). Talk about timing.

And then Sensei tells Ron he will be ready in the bathroom. How appropriate. Sensei tells him his mystical skills will blossom in adversity.

Drakken’s mother can knit like a fiend? I believe that!!

Who knew mystery meat had that much electrical energy, and that the tweebs would discover it.

Barkin turned out to be a big baby, and Nana is the one who puts him in his place.

To be expected, Ron will go after Kim to save her in any way he can, including using the Keppler II to blast into outer space to do it..

And of course, the one victory Drakken did finally acheive was not the one he was looking for.

Captain Constellation Fan Fic by MrDrP? Is that ironic or what? Our MrDrP and his ST:TNG crossover?

Good thing Shego is a pilot. So why is she going after Drakken? You have to wonder about that. It points to how Shego really feels about Drakken. It’s very complicated to be sure.

Another Star Wars reference. They get into the ship by going through the garbage hatch.

Kim and Ron have a joyful reunion on the ship, and in a freudian slip, so do Drakken and Shego, the first time we see some possibility of real affection between them.

Shego says she's got a lot on her plate to cover her embarrassment at that meeting. That’s an understatement.

Of course, only Rufus could find the off switch.

As always, Shego vehemently denies that anything is going on between her and Drakken, and Kim questions that coyly. Warmonga asks then why she was so threatened by her arrival. Then when Ron and Drakken blast away, Shego says "Come on. We'd better help.", to which Kim says, "See? You do care." Shego griamces and does not deny it.

Drakken gets his greatest plan ever.......to save the world, not conquer it. Of course he doesn't want to say the words.

There is the beginning of the description of life after high school. It appears from Ron's little conversation with Warhok that Kim will go off to school overseas while Ron stays at home. My impression is that they will of course try to get in touch as much as they can. But I think they’ll make a better job of it than was seen in ASiT, I would think.

In a revealing moment, Ron tells Kim says he can't live without her. That’s as close as we are going to hear him say he loves her. Actually I think he could say it fairly easily, but I think the writers don’t want that to be said, at least at this time. It's in the middle of the fight, so Kim just tells him to get a grip, but also that nothing was going to come between them. In a revealing moment, Kim admits to Ron she's scared of the future too.

In the final fight, Kim initially takes out Warhok, and Shego takes out Warmonga, and for the first time the puppy dog pout works on Shego to clean up the mess. Shego is truly getting her tough exterior shell broken down now. But the villains still come back and beat them down.

And of course, at the end, it all falls on Ron to find a way to invoke the mystical monkey power to save the day, and to save Kim. Everyone takes notice this time, (except Drakken because he missed it). Shego finally notes he really did step up to the plate. It's a great scene at the end just seeing Kim and Ron standing there at the end of the fight, just hugging each other. He truly did save her that time.

Graduation was done on the carcass of an alien machine,.....fitting

In the aftermath, Kim may be leaving, but it's fitting that things won't be dull with the tweebs still around, and blowing up Barkin's car....twice.
As to Bonnie, it is poetic justice that she had to take summer school to graduate, but at least she had Junior to comfort her.

Ron Stoppable just had to get his diploma the different way. The essential Ronness strikes again.

Zita and Felix look like they're doing fine together.

And of course, the craziest thing is that the only thing that Drakken ever successfully accomplished in terms of a victory is not to be a villain, but to be a hero and help save the world, getting a medal from the UN (How crazy is that?), but I cannot understand what the heck all the other villains were doing there. (?) Of course, Lucre would be cheering.

The flower vine knows more than either Drakken and Shego about how they feel about each other than they do, or at least they simply weren’t able to admit it to each other and the flower vine forces the issue. Those two finally have their version of Rufus.

Maybe Drakken can make his vines prodice Hydrangeas on demand, now that we know Shego loves them. He’ll never have a problem with giving her (or his mother) flowers from now on. It would be interesting to see the interaction between Shego and Mama Lipsky in these circumstances.

And the grand finish is of course......"Grease". How appropriate. One of the best statements of hope and looking forward towards the future that we will see.

The end credits! How did they get the stone Monkey Fist in there? Of course DNAmy would be sitting with him.

Dementor remarks on the irony of how Drakken was a complete failure at being a villain, only to succeed as a hero.

The elements that I think are important for the continuation of the series:

1. Barkin’s revelation of his high school past. I think that could figure into a future episode.

2. Kim's Fame starts to catch up with her. She will be more famous than before. That would present different circumstances and opportunities.

3. Ron is now the "Monkey Master". Now he has to try and be able to express it at will. This can be done by shifting the clown role to a certain degree to another character. He can become more competent, but he can still be the comic relief without being the butt of the joke.

4. Kim’s career as a college student will blossom as she continues a crime fighting career.

5. It seems to me they would have to come up with a new slew of villains, or at least a new main villain. Although it is quite viable for the writers to continue to have Drakken and Shego continue in that role, I think some new blood would liven up the series and make it fresh again.

It would seem proper to ‘retire’ Drakken and Shego, now that he’s found his niche as a ‘hero’, or more appropriately as someone who can create machines that actually help the world, instead of conquer it. Shego would still be assisting him, and at some point they would explore the relationship between them, although they would stubbornly refuse to show that affection too much. That’s just not their style. So Shego would retire from ‘evil’ doing, not because she isn’t evil anymore, but that’s just not her focus anymore. She’s there for Drakken. At times she might be able to be called upon to help Kim out on a mission now and then. Even Drakken might be able to come out on a mission if he keeps his flower power around. Commanding all those vines was pretty powerful if he can figure out to sue it effectively. He actually could make a pretty good hero type (or he could become the comic relief. Talk about irony! How about that combination for Team Possible? The continuation of the foursome seen in "Graduation". The potential for comedy there is boundless I think. Heaven knows they all know each other well enough.)

Drakken would always regret not being able to conquer the world, but realizes now that it’s just not his forte. He would still rant about it. Shego, of course, will keep him controlled, her droll wit continuing to cut him to the quick, then she would occasionally make up for it with a kind word and give a little ego boost.

Anyway, my thoughts on the finale.....and the future.

[BluetoothThePirate]

I like the clown. Don't lose the clown, the clown is good!

I liked having Slim back, but no Joss? Guess she couldn't miss the last week of school. And it's official, Kim's mom is "Annie". Which I guess means she's an Anne.

I guess Amy is just carrying Monty around like a trophy at this point. Probably some giant animal-thing just off screen to do the actual toting.

Junior and Bonnie interact exactly as I predicted they would.

As Grand Finales go, this one was shorter than the last, but a whole lot grander.

[Twila Starla]

I'm gonna try to write this as best I can, as my hands are shaking from excitment.

This episode only be discribed in one way.

The. Best. Finale. Ever.

Everything was prefect, right down to all the cameos made (Zida, Ron Reager, Felix, all the villians, etc.). I'm gonna have to watch it all again just to process it! I'll review what I remember best:

Ron's MMP rocked, but HEAVY!!! Best fight scene ever! :biggergrin:

The K/R kisses were so sweet! :)

We learn Mrs. Dr. P's name! ;D And it's todally destroyed my fan fiction canon. Oh well.

Loved the end scene with Drakken and Shego. Every villian must have his day. And Monkey Fist in there, so funny! :D

--

Final Rating: 5555555555/5

A wonderful five-year run comes to an amazing end! :) :cry:

[cpneb]

First comments that hit me in this wonderful sendoff.

favorite lines:

Ron:
Kim's out there, in the stars, and I'm gonna find her.

Warhok:
Denial is a river in Egypt on the planet we now control.

Dr. D, (taking 'flower power' to the max):
I should have gone green years ago.

observances and occurrences:

Mystery meat power.

Where's Joss Possible?

The death of Pandaroo.

Kim's wearing the baby-blue version of the LBD under her graduation gown: Ron was gonna be a very, very happy Ron....

even the plants know, or in this case, someone's subconscious: DR. D and Shego belong together.

Felix and Zita: now, there's a surprise!

Monique, left out in the pairing cold, once again....

She can to anything, including running and kicking tail in heels, no less.

Even Sarah had blue on, under her gown!

Now, let the fanfics begin!

[campy]

The last scene continues to intrigue me. Camille morphing out of Bonnie's form while sitting with Junior & Senior. I wonder how long she's been impersonating Bon Bon? It's a great way to hide in plain sight—plus she gets an heir to billions as a BF.

Bonnie's remains will probably be discovered when they clear the debris from the high school site.

[Mike_Industries]

I loved that line so much... A little clue to why Drakken is blue.

I have got to say this was the best episode of season 4, But StD affected me more. I do however love the many joke's and lines thrown in that were so played on. May favorite two are...

"Revenge's the sitch." Kim Possible - If you can't figure out what that line plays off of, you have a clean mind.

"Denial is not just a river in Egypt on the planet we now control." Warhawk - Obviously a play off of The New Guy. If you haven't seen that movie, watch it.

Finally Drakken and Shego... Finally.

I wonder where in the world Joss was. I sure would hate to leave her alone, she can get into some serious trouble... Bad Slim, Bad Slim!

Welcome Anne!

I guess my overall thoughts that this is a great series finale. I hope for more KP episodes, but hope is all I got. There is still alot of good story that could be brought up in another season. But thus ends the era of Kim Possible. A tear shed for all those great memories.

:cry:

Now I just wonder, Will Disney ever top the KP series? My answer: No Freakin Way! That would be just Sick & Wrong!

[tweeb²]

is here some people complaining about Kim and Ron going to different colleges, ron maybe not going to college at all?

Why we should care? he is a Monkey Kung Fu Master, he can teach the ways of monkey kung fu and make serious cash, some people have worried too much about it.

They also worry about Kim, having no hero time at all.
Why should they care as well? Ron definetly deserved some "big hero time", so he is finally at kim´s level, that doesn´t mean kim lowered down, that simply means that ron stepped up.

also, you noticed how much movie references are in the finale?
Star Wars, Greace, Signs, Independence Day, Braveheart... lot them here, hope some of you guys discovered more.

[kyojikasshu]

I would tend to think that Camille only snuck in there to take advantage of Bonnie being stuck in summer school.

Anyway... to paraphrase Mr. Barkin at the end of "Mathter and Fervent"... This ending ROCKS! A+!!

Or, to borrow from Ralphie's fantasy in A Christmas Story, "A Plus! Plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus!"

That was too freakin' epic. Hilarious, exciting, awesome...

Ron going full monkey power, it kind of reminded me of when Gohan went Super Saiyan 2 against Perfect Cell; I could almost imagine "Day of Destiny: Spirit vs. Spirit" playing beneath that scene. (Of course, if it were Dragonball Z, the fight between Ron and Warhok would've lasted for ten episodes!)

And Felix and Zita? Surprising, but in a good way.

Shego's green bathing suit from "Mad Dogs and Aliens", and her green dress from "The Mentor of our Discontent"? Niiiiiice... XD

As far as Ron's post-graduation future, I would suspect that Master Sensei would have an open invitation to have him come back to Yamanouchi...

Oh, and there's another sci-fi reference... I'm not aware of any popular Western works that feature a ramp launch like the Kepler II's, but in some of the Mobile Suit Gundam series (Gundam Wing comes first and foremost to mind), a ramp-style takeoff was used for some spacecraft.

Funny thing is, I know somebody who's currently working at WDW, at the Intermission Food Court at the All-Star Music Resort. They've had the KP-thon on the last few days, and I've left him a message to get the crowd reaction to "Graduation". If I hear back from him, I'll be sure to let you guys know!

[wallaceb]

screen caps are uploaded
http://caps.kpfanworld.com/graduation.php

enjoy!

[GoTeamGirl]

Wow! I loved the finale! Amazing, everything I wanted and more!

There was an interesting thing-the way they alluded to Drakken's blue skin story but never told it.

[jeriddian]

is here some people complaining about Kim and Ron going to different colleges, ron maybe not going to college at all?

Why we should care? he is a Monkey Kung Fu Master, he can teach the ways of monkey kung fu and make serious cash, some people have worried too much about it.

They also worry about Kim, having no hero time at all.
Why should they care as well? Ron definetly deserved some "big hero time", so he is finally at kim´s level, that doesn´t mean kim lowered down, that simply means that ron stepped up.

also, you noticed how much movie references are in the finale?
Star Wars, Greace, Signs, Independence Day, Braveheart... lot them here, hope some of you guys discovered more.

You are right. Lots and lots of references. The storyline is completely open. nothign is set in stone as to what will happen. We can only say for sure that Kim is going overseas to college. As to what ron will be doing, everythying is completely open there..

Wow! I loved the finale! Amazing, everything I wanted and more!

There was an interesting thing-the way they alluded to Drakken's blue skin story but never told it.

it was absoultely beautiful.:D

[GoTeamGirl]

I really want to know what Ron will do, actually. It seemed never to be answered, but I have a feeling that he and KP will stay together.

[cpneb]

I really want to know what Ron will do, actually. It seemed never to be answered, but I have a feeling that he and KP will stay together.

According to a person sitting in on a chat with Steve Lothar, Kim and Ron go to college together, but there was no mention of where college would be.

Personal opinion: after all this, Kim's staying close to home for year one, especially after she really sees her home. or what's left of it.

...cpneb

[Cloud23465]

I really want to know what Ron will do, actually. It seemed never to be answered, but I have a feeling that he and KP will stay together.

According to a person sitting in on a chat with Steve Lothar, Kim and Ron go to college together, but there was no mention of where college would be.

Personal opinion: after all this, Kim's staying close to home for year one, especially after she really sees her home. or what's left of it.

...cpneb


I can vouch for that... I was there. Of course now that it's to late to ask the question i just though that i should of asked... oh well... maybe someday i get it answered.

[MrDrP]

That was a truly satisfying conclusion to the series. An epic storyline filled with emotion and humor. MBS really topped themselves.

There's so much to rave about in this episode: the K/R storyline, Kim working with Drakken while Ron teams up with Shego, Ron coming into his own as the Monkey Master, appearances by favorite characters from past episodes, and the list goes on.

Two moments to comment on:

1. I don't know that it's my favorite funny moment, but I just loved watching Nana tell Barkin to go hide in a closet until the invasion was over. Priceless.

2. My wife commented on this, and I agree: look at Ron in the closing scene when he kisses Kim. He looks just a little different, more like a man than a boy. It was great to see him step up from being Kim's sidekick to her partner.

[kyojikasshu]

According to a person sitting in on a chat with Steve Lothar

... I didn't know Lothar of the Hill People worked on KP, or that his first name was Steve! :laugh:

... sorry, sorry... I just couldn't resist. But that sort of thing happens to the best of us...

I will definitely be watching this again and again, poring over it...

Oh, and one more thing... I was utterly surprised when I heard Master Sensei say, instead of "Booyah", what very much sounded like "Booyaka". I know its origin comes from eslewhere, but I always associate that expression with both the character Ran Cossack from Bob and George: The Comic Strip (and numerous other sprite-based comics; he even cameoed in my own series), and the person who really created the character, also known as Ran, whom I've "known" since 2001.

[Cloud23465]

I dont know what it was but when Ron tapped into the monkey power... It just reminded me of a super saiyan powered up from dragon ball z... what a great idea for a fan fic.... :biggergrin:

Oh and BTW Steve said Mrs. possilbles first time is Anne! Kims middle name... go figure

[TheGreenMagic]

Oh, the episodes freaking rocked in nearly every way possible. The only thing that seemed a tiny bit off was Ron's stepping up. It would have been better served happening in one of the previous Monkey Fist episodes, but better late than never.

The ending was handled flawlessly. Leave it open enough for the fans to come to their own conclusions. And always leave them wanting more... which leads me to the absolute final scene where the villains of the series got the final word in. Perfection. :biggergrin:

Edit: Oh, and the Powers That Be of KP found the perfect way to satisfy both Bonnie fans and Bonnie haters. Mad props go out for that delicate balance being achieved.

[jeriddian]

Oh, the episodes freaking rocked in nearly every way possible. The only thing that seemed a tiny bit off was Ron's stepping up. It would have been better served happening in one of the previous Monkey Fist episodes, but better late than never.

The ending was handled flawlessly. Leave it open enough for the fans to come to their own conclusions. And always leave them wanting more... which leads me to the absolute final scene where the villains of the series got the final word in. Perfection. :biggergrin:

Edit: Oh, and the Powers That Be of KP found the perfect way to satisfy both Bonnie fans and Bonnie haters. Mad props go out for that delicate balance being achieved.

I have the same thought about Ron stepping up when he did. I believe it was the perfect time for him to do that. Somewhere in the series, he had to prove himself. This was exactly the right place to do it. But TGM is right in that he should have stepped up before. I think "Oh No! Yono is one place he should have done it as well.":)

[cpneb]

It's out there, in here....

Press release as of 2007.09.07 23.25 CDT:

Birth, and Rebirth 00: My Eyes Adored You
chapter 0: a million miles away from me....

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3773077/1/

A minor character, seemingly with a heart of gold, tells his tale. This is a joint tale by cpneb and jakt, driven by the power of imagination and the innocence of youth in all of us, but led by kt.

First of the post-Graduation Finale fanfics, and the opening of the Birth, and Rebirth story arc in the JadeKimVerse.

[rufus_forever]

In a way, the final battle scene brought the series full circle for me. Ron in his own stumbling, bumbling way did "step up" in the very earliest episodes and save the day (i.e., "Sink or Swim") or play a key part in saving the day (i.e., "Bueno Nacho", "The New Ron" and "Tick, Tick, Tick"), but that changed as time went on and he became most of the time a rather tiresome whining "buffoon".

Seeing him finally be allowed to step up again and this time appear to have at last become a full partner for Kim instead of just a sidekick is by far the most satisfying part of "Graduation".

Also, I was very pleasantly surprised to see in the credits that Rough Draft did indeed do some of the animation for the finale. I'm guessing they did the second half, with Starburst doing the first half, as there did seem to be slight drawing changes in the characters about midway through. However, it could have been a case where Starburst did the basic animation and Rough Draft added the CGI effects.

[Twila Starla]

I was surfing the screenshots, and found this little tidbit, look who's sitting behind Camille...

http://caps.kpfanworld.com/images/graduation2/1039.jpg

Looks like truely everyone showed up for Drakken and Shego's award ceremony. :)

[jeriddian]

The question I have is why? Why would the villains be present at an award given by the UN? (or the KPverse equivalent). I can't make sense of that.:unsure::blink::errr:.

EDIT: okay, who is that behind Camille. I can't tell.

[TransWarpDrive]

A few thoughts on the finale...
Yes, I loved the part where Nana tells Barkin to go hide in the closet, too. A big, strong military vet and take-charge control freak like him, going to pieces? Marvelous! :laugh:
I also love the irony of Drakken, who wanted to conquer the world, being lauded as a hero for saving it instead. (Not exactly what you'd planned, eh, Doc? :D)
And yes, the resolution of the whole Bonnie sitch I found most satisfying. She finally got put in her place - I hope she enjoys eating some "humble pie" while finishing summer school! :D
(BTW, was that Camille Leon I saw morphing out of Bonnie's form in the villains' cafe over the credits? When did the two switch places? :huh:)
I must admit, I was a bit surprised at Drakken and Shego admitting they had feelings for each other (in actions, if not words). I got the impression from Steve Loter that their relationship was purely professional, due to their age difference. Oh, well...
I found it rather fitting that Ron should "step up" in the climactic battle and whip Warhok (sp?) and Warmonga so he could save Kim. We've known throughout the series that he always had that heroic potential in him (mystical monkey power or not), considering the ways he came to the rescue in the past. This time, though, was his defining moment - you could tell.
I also like the way Kim showed more bravado than Drakken did after they were both captured and taken on board the alien ship. It makes it even more ironic that while she's not frightened by alien abduction or even threats to her life, the prospect of life after high school does scare Kim (the confession she tried to make to Ron at graduation but ended up telling him during the climactic battle). Yet another way in which the KP Krew made Kim seem more human.
And yes, I caught Slim calling Kim's mom "Annie" - meaning that her first name's Ann (also Kim's middle name). I kind of guessed that'd be the case, seeing as how the tweebs are named after their father, James Timothy Possible. Kudos to the KP Krew for finally clearing up that mystery!
I have to admit I was shocked, and kind of saddened, to see the Possible house get destroyed by one of those alien machines. I'd grown rather fond of the place, and can imagine how hard it'll be for the Possible family to pick up the pieces and carry on. (I actually found myself thinking about Kim losing her Pandaroo in this disaster. Speaking of which, was the Pandaroo we saw getting stepped on and destroyed by one of those machines supposed to be Kim's, or another one entirely?)
And the way Kim's car can retract its roof like a convertible? Well, all I can say is, the Tweebs have sure been busy!
All in all, a most satisfying finale. They concluded some storylines, yet left doors open on others for any further movies, specials, or even spin-off series down the road. The story of Kim and Ron didn't come to an end; we're just taking our leave of them as they finish high school and prepare to go off to college or wherever the future will take them. I hope we'll get to drop in on them again from time to time, if only to say "Hi" and catch up on things...
It's always nice to visit old friends that way.

[Twila Starla]

The question I have is why? Why would the villains be present at an award given by the UN? (or the KPverse equivalent). I can't make sense of that.:unsure::blink::errr:.

EDIT: okay, who is that behind Camille. I can't tell.

I think the guy directly behind her is Hank Perkins, but I'm not 100% on it. To mystery guy's left though, are three members of Team Go and Dr. Director!

Why the UN let villians attend the ceremony? Because it's a classic cliche! :P :laugh:

[TheGreenMagic]

Team Go was there?

*TheGreenMagic takes a good look at the above screencap.*

Well I'll be dipped. Makes you wonder how Shego reacted to that, all things considered. And here come the plot bunnies...

[Twila Starla]

Team Go was there?

*TheGreenMagic takes a good look at the above screencap.*

Well I'll be dipped. Makes you wonder how Shego reacted to that, all things considered. And here come the plot bunnies...

Oh, the plot bunnies attacked me shortly after finding the cap, such fan fiction possiblities... :dribble:

Also makes you wonder how the team handled the Lorwardian fleets? :hmm:

:plot bunnies dogpile Twila Starla:

[jeriddian]

I can see the Team Go members. That makes sense. But Hank Perkins? It's too small to be sure, at least to me.

And villains being at the awards ceremony as a classic cartoon cliche.....
Yeah.....I can see that, especially since it's the series finale (for now).

[TransWarpDrive]

Can I remove my spoiler text, or should I just leave it as is for a few days?
EDIT: I went ahead and removed it, now that most of us have seen the finale and are openly commenting on it.

[TheGreenMagic]

I can see the Team Go members. That makes sense. But Hank Perkins? It's too small to be sure, at least to me.
It's a shot in the dark to be sure, but the character in question kind of looks like Prince Wally to me.

[Not The CrimpMaster]

That was a great finale. It did feel a little rushed too me, like it would've been better if they devoted a full one-and-a-half hours to it like with StD and ASiT, but still...wow. That was amazing. Full of great humor, dialogue, and kick-@## action. :D I loved the ending, the way they ended it with the song. Anyone know what song that is?

The male alien, Warhawk, kind of reminded me of the Skaarj aliens from the Unreal/Unreal Tournament franchise.

(Minor complaint: spoiler text is next to impossible to read for me even if I highlight it because the color of the text and the color of the highlight are so similar. I'd rather not have to copy text into a text file every time I encounter a spoiler.

[TransWarpDrive]

I can see the Team Go members. That makes sense. But Hank Perkins? It's too small to be sure, at least to me.
It's a shot in the dark to be sure, but the character in question kind of looks like Prince Wally to me.
That's who I thought it was too, when I first saw him.

[jeriddian]

I can see the Team Go members. That makes sense. But Hank Perkins? It's too small to be sure, at least to me.
It's a shot in the dark to be sure, but the character in question kind of looks like Prince Wally to me.
That's who I thought it was too, when I first saw him.

Yeah, that makes better sense to me too.

[The Creeping Spleen]

Ok, here's a question - if (may the good lord up above and the bad one down below forbid) Darkken and Shego ever have kids, what colour will they be?

What colour does one get when one mixes green and blue?

[NinjaNaco]

Some thoughts on the finale (Originally posted on RS.net):
+ Overall, a glorious and fitting finale to the series. This exceeds So the Drama by far.
+ "Best two years of my life. LOL! And I wonder exactly what happened at Steve's graduation - he not only saved the world (!), but he also had a great girlfriend. (Scoutess, are you time traveling? ;) )
- The fact that Mr. Barkin was reduced to a crybaby. I was hoping that this would be the opportunity to see Mr. Barkin in his prime, to see the old soldier doing what he really wants to do - fight as a soldier in battle.
- Ron's Mystical Monkey Power stuff. I know, it was great for him to "step up," but I've actually had a problem with MMP ever since I found out about said storyline in "Monkey Ninjas in Space." Namely, the whole supernatural thing - while I'm completely fine with a show leaving the whole religion thing for the fans and such, but doesn't the whole MMP thing sort of make a claim to the supernatural/divine that could be said to contradict other, RL claims, such as, say, Judeo-Christian monotheism? (On the other hand, Christian KP fanfic writers such as captainkodak, Artificial Moose/WesUAH, and G-Go seem fine with MMP). Oddly enough, I was actually fine with MMP for a good long while,then I became an ADJL fan, and eventually started angsting about all the mystical and magical stuff in TV shows again. (Cue the berating of my "religious intolerance" by other members of the board... ::) )
+ That said, I did like Hana's little "kung-fu" thing at the end when she sees Ron. Nice touch.
+ Given what at least one person (rufus_forever) voiced at ARA about a certain naked mole rat's treatment reaching an all-time low in "Chasing Rufus," I was glad to see Rufus do something essential (shutting off the spaceship) in the finale.
+ "Long have I questioned the wisdom of that accursed switch." Love it.
+ ZITA!
+/- Zita/Felix. Well, I know she's not real, I've thought this plausible, and think it's great that Zita's got a great guy, but I had an emotional "NOOO!" to seeing my cartoon crush "in the arms of another." Well, MBS did mention it earlier and, well, Felix Renton, you are one lucky guy! ;D
+ Bonnie getting her just desserts. While I was personally fine (basically) with the ending of "Homecoming Upset," I know a lot of people wanted Bonnie to pay for her sins.
- That said, I think Steve should have listed Bonnie's corrupting Ron Reeger in listing the crimes for which she should spend summer school for.
/ Bonnie/Junior. While I've hypothesized that Bonnie and SSJ could have broken up after "The Cupid Effect" (what would you do if you saw your boyfirend with all those girls?), it seems that MBS thought differently.
/ Drakken/Shego. Given what MBS have said in the past, I thought it wasn't going to happen, and yet... Still, I know some people have said that it's ambiguous whether or not Drakken and Shego will wind up "shipping" each other, but still...
+ Was it just me, or were/are Warhok and Warmonga a couple? Some of the dialogue about their past exploits seems to suggest that...
- Well, this all but rules out the feasibility of a KP/SG-1 crossover. Given all the defenses SG-1 built up over its run (F-302s, the Daedulus ships, the chair in Antarctica, etc.), wouldn't they have responded to the Lorwardian ship? (On the other hand, it might be funny for a fanfic writer to come up with reasons why the various Earth defenses of the SGC couldn't come to Earth's aid, and a reasonable excuse to demote O'Neill back to Colonel. ;) )
- No Joss. I read Steve Loter's comment that that had so many characters, and Mark and Bob thought (not "felt") Joss's story had already been told, but would it have hurt to put her in with the rest of the "whole Possible family" scenes, maybe even give her a line or two?
-The tweebs going "ick" at the concept of Kim and Ron dating. I was hoping they'd be going through puberty at this time, and thus would "want cooties" by now. ;) :(
+I just saw this when looking at screencaps - along with the villains section at the UN, there's Monkey Fist - still in stone! LOL!
+The very end, where they tease us as to how exactly Drakken became blue - BRILLIANT!
All in all, a glorious, if not quite perfect, end to the series. (I might have some more comments later.)

[campy]

-The tweebs going "ick" at the concept of Kim and Ron dating. I was hoping they'd be going through puberty at this time, and thus would "want cooties" by now. ;)I'm sure they are—if a lunch with Bonnie, Hope, Marcella and Jessica doesn't launch boys that age into puberty, call an endocrinologist, stat. But there's the whole 'big sister' factor to consider. :D

[NinjaNaco]

-The tweebs going "ick" at the concept of Kim and Ron dating. I was hoping they'd be going through puberty at this time, and thus would "want cooties" by now. ;)I'm sure they are—if a lunch with Bonnie, Hope, Marcella and Jessica doesn't launch boys that age into puberty, call an endocrinologist, stat. But there's the whole 'big sister' factor to consider. :D
True. The "big sister" thing must be factored in. :)

[jeriddian]

Well, it is done......:ohwell::neutral::cry::errr:.........but my mission is complete. 72 discs......72 hours of digitalized KP perfection. Now I can feel like an era has passed, which it has.........:confused:............but there is at the end a sense of accomplishment that goes along with that, if only in a small way as a fan........I am (as are we all) a part of the story of KP.:)

[canuck31003]

The scene where Ron levitated and turned blue was bugging me and while rewatching the finale I finally remembered why it felt so appropriate. In the student exchange episode Ron also turned blue when he used MMP against the Yamanuchi-traitor-student guy--sort of bought that storyline full circle, in a way, and a very nice nod to continuity, I think. :) But what ever happened to the sword?

I liked the music and sound effects, too. The monkey noises that accompanied MMP-Ron were a nice touch, I thought.

As for speculations about the future, even if Ron's grades don't get him in to the same college as Kim, I wonder if he could just ask for a transfer to a SmartyMart local to Kim's college? Unless Ron is dead set on earning a higher degree, of course.

Alternatively, I wonder if Ron's new confidence will carry over to other aspects of his life, just as in Bad Boy, though in a more positive direction, and Ron could retake college entrance exams or something and get into Kim's choice.

[NinjaNaco]

The scene where Ron levitated and turned blue was bugging me and while rewatching the finale I finally remembered why it felt so appropriate. In the student exchange episode Ron also turned blue when he used MMP against the Yamanuchi-traitor-student guy--sort of bought that storyline full circle, in a way, and a very nice nod to continuity, I think. :) But what ever happened to the sword?
Well, I've got concerns about the whole MMP thing (see my big post above) but, yeah, I've wondered what happened to the Lotus Blade.

As for schools and such, I think Steve Loter said in an online chat that Kim and Ron go to the same college.

Also, am I the only one who think Drakken is done with villainy? Since he now has the "recognition" he thinks he deserves (well, now he sorta does deserve it), methink's he'll be settling down (maybe with Shego) and live a quiet life from now on. Though I'm sorta saddened by it - the KP world will miss something if Drakken and Shego aren't villains anymore.

I wonder ... how can fanfic writers top Graduation? I dunno, I'm still angsting over the whole MMP thing... (I know, I know, it's entirely a work of fiction, but still...)

[canuck31003]

Namely, the whole supernatural thing - while I'm completely fine with a show leaving the whole religion thing for the fans and such, but doesn't the whole MMP thing sort of make a claim to the supernatural/divine that could be said to contradict other, RL claims, such as, say, Judeo-Christian monotheism?
My knowledge of religion is very cursory, but generally speaking, does the supernatural have to be connected to the divine, can't they be separate? Or is this a case where the divine is responsible/creator of everything in the universe so by definition is connected to everything including MMP?

Personally, I think the word "supernatural" just describes phenomenon that as yet humans don't have the technology or knowledge to be able to explain. Sort of like how automobiles or airplanes might have appeared supernatural to early homo sapiens. Who knows, maybe in the future Wade will be able to discover new laws of physics that can explain MMP, and hence the supernatural becomes mundane, rather than divine or whatever someone may believe.

[campy]

Namely, the whole supernatural thing - while I'm completely fine with a show leaving the whole religion thing for the fans and such, but doesn't the whole MMP thing sort of make a claim to the supernatural/divine that could be said to contradict other, RL claims, such as, say, Judeo-Christian monotheism?
My knowledge of religion is very cursory, but generally speaking, does the supernatural have to be connected to the divine, can't they be separate? Or is this a case where the divine is responsible/creator of everything in the universe so by definition is connected to everything including MMP?

Personally, I think the word "supernatural" just describes phenomenon that as yet humans don't have the technology or knowledge to be able to explain. Sort of like how automobiles or airplanes might have appeared supernatural to early homo sapiens. Who knows, maybe in the future Wade will be able to discover new laws of physics that can explain MMP, and hence the supernatural becomes mundane, rather than divine or whatever someone may believe.

Let's look at how The Free Dictionary defines the adjective mystical :

1. Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.
2. Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God: a mystical religion.
3. Enigmatic; obscure: mystical theories about the securities market.
4. Of or relating to mystic rites or practices.
5. Unintelligible; cryptic.

Definitions 3 and 5, at least, don't conclusively rely on religion that I can see.

[NinjaNaco]

Well, one of the central tenets of Abrahamic monotheism is that there's only one god - God - and no others, so well, it seems that apparitions of pagan things would contradict that...

Though it could be that MMP is really some kind of technology or something (The fact that Wade was able to demonkeify Kim in "The Full Monkey" lends credence to this theory.)

[campy]

I don't know why, but one of the most amusing things for me was the Warhok logo on all the trash bags ejected from the ship.

I know, I'm weird. But you like me ... right? Right?

[crickets chirping]

:o

[canuck31003]

Well, one of the central tenets of Abrahamic monotheism is that there's only one god - God - and no others, so well, it seems that apparitions of pagan things would contradict that...
My understanding is that "pagan" simply describes someone/something that is not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. So with this definition I guess MMP is pagan. But I wonder, does monotheism reject the possibility of non-divine and non-devil powers?

On the other hand, if we go with monotheism, doesn't that imply that MMP has to be ultimately due to God's will/desire? eg. God works in mysterious ways and gave certain people MMP in order to do his work?

Hmmm, a new thought--it never crossed my mind before, but depending on how you look at it, I guess one could argue MMP is a religion in KP-verse. If so, then, yes, I guess that does throw a humongous monkey wrench in to reconciling MMP with monotheism. My take, though, is that MMP is not a religion; MMP is more like a suped-up version of "chi" of Chinese philosophy (which, to my limited knowledge, has no connection to the divine).

Alternatively, I could just be thinking too much. :P

[AinoMinako]

I just watched it!

I'll have to post more after I watch it again.

"Graduation" rocked in stereo! Kudos to the KP Krew for the perfect way to end the series... Again.

[jeriddian]

Well, one of the central tenets of Abrahamic monotheism is that there's only one god - God - and no others, so well, it seems that apparitions of pagan things would contradict that...
My understanding is that "pagan" simply describes someone/something that is not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. So with this definition I guess MMP is pagan. But I wonder, does monotheism reject the possibility of non-divine and non-devil powers?

On the other hand, if we go with monotheism, doesn't that imply that MMP has to be ultimately due to God's will/desire? eg. God works in mysterious ways and gave certain people MMP in order to do his work?

Hmmm, a new thought--it never crossed my mind before, but depending on how you look at it, I guess one could argue MMP is a religion in KP-verse. If so, then, yes, I guess that does throw a humongous monkey wrench in to reconciling MMP with monotheism. My take, though, is that MMP is not a religion; MMP is more like a suped-up version of "chi" of Chinese philosophy (which, to my limited knowledge, has no connection to the divine).

Alternatively, I could just be thinking too much. :P

I don't think it's necessary to require that there is an all powerful being to be related to MMP, or any religion per se. One must remember that the martial arts were not and are not religions in and of themselves. They were disciplines which were used in association with some religions, but did not actually subscribe to them. This is a subject I know very well, having studied and taught martial arts in my youth for a good number of years.

[TransWarpDrive]

The scene where Ron levitated and turned blue was bugging me and while rewatching the finale I finally remembered why it felt so appropriate. In the student exchange episode Ron also turned blue when he used MMP against the Yamanuchi-traitor-student guy--sort of bought that storyline full circle, in a way, and a very nice nod to continuity, I think. :) But what ever happened to the sword?

I liked the music and sound effects, too. The monkey noises that accompanied MMP-Ron were a nice touch, I thought.

As for speculations about the future, even if Ron's grades don't get him in to the same college as Kim, I wonder if he could just ask for a transfer to a SmartyMart local to Kim's college? Unless Ron is dead set on earning a higher degree, of course.

Alternatively, I wonder if Ron's new confidence will carry over to other aspects of his life, just as in Bad Boy, though in a more positive direction, and Ron could retake college entrance exams or something and get into Kim's choice.

I've always felt that Ron could probably get a culinary scholarship, given the mad cooking skills he demonstrated in Two to Tutor. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he were to apply for such at whatever college Kim's attending, and get in (I'll bet it wouldn't surprise Kim, either).

[jeriddian]

The scene where Ron levitated and turned blue was bugging me and while rewatching the finale I finally remembered why it felt so appropriate. In the student exchange episode Ron also turned blue when he used MMP against the Yamanuchi-traitor-student guy--sort of bought that storyline full circle, in a way, and a very nice nod to continuity, I think. :) But what ever happened to the sword?

I liked the music and sound effects, too. The monkey noises that accompanied MMP-Ron were a nice touch, I thought.

As for speculations about the future, even if Ron's grades don't get him in to the same college as Kim, I wonder if he could just ask for a transfer to a SmartyMart local to Kim's college? Unless Ron is dead set on earning a higher degree, of course.

Alternatively, I wonder if Ron's new confidence will carry over to other aspects of his life, just as in Bad Boy, though in a more positive direction, and Ron could retake college entrance exams or something and get into Kim's choice.

I've always felt that Ron could probably get a culinary scholarship, given the mad cooking skills he demonstrated in Two to Tutor. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he were to apply for such at whatever college Kim's attending, and get in (I'll bet it wouldn't surprise Kim, either).

Cloud mentioned that Steve Loter pictured Kim and Ron going to the same college. My impression is that Kim may not go overseas after all, partially to be near Ron. Ron could very well end up with a foorball scholarship at whatever university Kim attended.

[TransWarpDrive]

The scene where Ron levitated and turned blue was bugging me and while rewatching the finale I finally remembered why it felt so appropriate. In the student exchange episode Ron also turned blue when he used MMP against the Yamanuchi-traitor-student guy--sort of bought that storyline full circle, in a way, and a very nice nod to continuity, I think. :) But what ever happened to the sword?

I liked the music and sound effects, too. The monkey noises that accompanied MMP-Ron were a nice touch, I thought.

As for speculations about the future, even if Ron's grades don't get him in to the same college as Kim, I wonder if he could just ask for a transfer to a SmartyMart local to Kim's college? Unless Ron is dead set on earning a higher degree, of course.

Alternatively, I wonder if Ron's new confidence will carry over to other aspects of his life, just as in Bad Boy, though in a more positive direction, and Ron could retake college entrance exams or something and get into Kim's choice.

I've always felt that Ron could probably get a culinary scholarship, given the mad cooking skills he demonstrated in Two to Tutor. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he were to apply for such at whatever college Kim's attending, and get in (I'll bet it wouldn't surprise Kim, either).

Cloud mentioned that Steve Loter pictured Kim and Ron going to the same college. My impression is that Kim may not go overseas after all, partially to be near Ron. Ron could very well end up with a foorball scholarship at whatever university Kim attended.

Could very well be - how about a football scholarship where he majors in culinary arts? :D

[jeriddian]

The scene where Ron levitated and turned blue was bugging me and while rewatching the finale I finally remembered why it felt so appropriate. In the student exchange episode Ron also turned blue when he used MMP against the Yamanuchi-traitor-student guy--sort of bought that storyline full circle, in a way, and a very nice nod to continuity, I think. :) But what ever happened to the sword?

I liked the music and sound effects, too. The monkey noises that accompanied MMP-Ron were a nice touch, I thought.

As for speculations about the future, even if Ron's grades don't get him in to the same college as Kim, I wonder if he could just ask for a transfer to a SmartyMart local to Kim's college? Unless Ron is dead set on earning a higher degree, of course.

Alternatively, I wonder if Ron's new confidence will carry over to other aspects of his life, just as in Bad Boy, though in a more positive direction, and Ron could retake college entrance exams or something and get into Kim's choice.

I've always felt that Ron could probably get a culinary scholarship, given the mad cooking skills he demonstrated in Two to Tutor. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he were to apply for such at whatever college Kim's attending, and get in (I'll bet it wouldn't surprise Kim, either).

Cloud mentioned that Steve Loter pictured Kim and Ron going to the same college. My impression is that Kim may not go overseas after all, partially to be near Ron. Ron could very well end up with a foorball scholarship at whatever university Kim attended.

Could very well be - how about a football scholarship where he majors in culinary arts? :D

As a minor. My impression is that he will be a business major.

[TransWarpDrive]

The scene where Ron levitated and turned blue was bugging me and while rewatching the finale I finally remembered why it felt so appropriate. In the student exchange episode Ron also turned blue when he used MMP against the Yamanuchi-traitor-student guy--sort of bought that storyline full circle, in a way, and a very nice nod to continuity, I think. :) But what ever happened to the sword?

I liked the music and sound effects, too. The monkey noises that accompanied MMP-Ron were a nice touch, I thought.

As for speculations about the future, even if Ron's grades don't get him in to the same college as Kim, I wonder if he could just ask for a transfer to a SmartyMart local to Kim's college? Unless Ron is dead set on earning a higher degree, of course.

Alternatively, I wonder if Ron's new confidence will carry over to other aspects of his life, just as in Bad Boy, though in a more positive direction, and Ron could retake college entrance exams or something and get into Kim's choice.

I've always felt that Ron could probably get a culinary scholarship, given the mad cooking skills he demonstrated in Two to Tutor. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he were to apply for such at whatever college Kim's attending, and get in (I'll bet it wouldn't surprise Kim, either).

Cloud mentioned that Steve Loter pictured Kim and Ron going to the same college. My impression is that Kim may not go overseas after all, partially to be near Ron. Ron could very well end up with a foorball scholarship at whatever university Kim attended.

Could very well be - how about a football scholarship where he majors in culinary arts? :D

As a minor. My impression is that he will be a business major.

You mean because of his experience working at Smarty-Mart? Interesting...I'd forgotten about his job there.
But the milion-dollar question is: What do you think Kim will major in?

[Darth_Comrade]

The Finale more than just rocked! :D

Although its not in the same epicness as STD, it was epic in its own fast paced and fun style.

It seriosuly encouraged me to fight for a fifth season even more. :thumbs:

Why?

Because I honestly believe although its a good ending it still makes for an even better step up for the show. :thumbup:

I loved the star wars references and little nods in the finale- such as Ron 'force pushing' Warhok and the way the ship crashed towards Earth (didn't it look like Grievous' flag ship?)...

Anyways, the best episode, yup most definitiely! :)

[NinjaNaco]

I don't think it's necessary to require that there is an all powerful being to be related to MMP, or any religion per se. One must remember that the martial arts were not and are not religions in and of themselves. They were disciplines which were used in association with some religions, but did not actually subscribe to them. This is a subject I know very well, having studied and taught martial arts in my youth for a good number of years.
That reminded of me the time when "PossibleKim" on RS.net theorized that the Possibles might be Buddhist because Nana trained with the Shaolin monks. My thought was, "Nana didn't go to Shaolin for the Buddhism - she went there for the martial arts."

As for thinking too much, mind if I regale you on the problematically quasi-Manichean metaphysical implications of the Attitudinator? ;)

[campy]

My impression is that he will be a business major.

You mean because of his experience working at Smarty-Mart? Interesting...I'd forgotten about his job there.
But the milion-dollar question is: What do you think Kim will major in?I can easily see Ron becoming a cross between Martin Smarty and Hank Perkins, with a little Eastern mysticism thrown in via Sensei. As for Kim ... the international diplomacy field à la "Job Unfair" still seems most appropriate.

[NinjaNaco]

Two things to note...

1. Did you notice that basically all of KP's familiar locales were destroyed, or at least heavily damaged. Kim's House was completely annihilated, as was Bueno Nacho #582, and MHS was heavily, heavily damaged. It really sent home the message that this is the end of KP as we know it.

2. Also, is it just me, or is it a bad omen for a villain to mess with Bueno Nacho? Drakken - ruins Bueno Nacho from the inside, plans ultimately thwarted. Lorwardia - destroys Bueno Nacho #582, takeover plan thwarted by plants (and heroes). Shego- destroys said Bueno Nacho in building her palace, winds up having her conquest not happen at all.

I wonder if some future villain (a hardcore Bonnie, perhaps?) will notice this and make an explicit effort not to mess with BN? ;)

[campy]

Two things to note...

1. Did you notice that basically all of KP's familiar locales were destroyed, or at least heavily damaged. Kim's House was completely annihilated, as was Bueno Nacho #582, and MHS was heavily, heavily damaged. It really sent home the message that this is the end of KP as we know it.

2. Also, is it just me, or is it a bad omen for a villain to mess with Bueno Nacho? Drakken - ruins Bueno Nacho from the inside, plans ultimately thwarted. Lorwardia - destroys Bueno Nacho #582, takeover plan thwarted by plants (and heroes). Shego- destroys said Bueno Nacho in building her palace, winds up having her conquest not happen at all.

I wonder if some future villain (a hardcore Bonnie, perhaps?) will notice this and make an explicit effort not to mess with BN? ;)Good point. Maybe the larger lesson here is: before attempting to take over world, make sure you recruit Ron to your side.

[kyojikasshu]

Two things to note...

1. Did you notice that basically all of KP's familiar locales were destroyed, or at least heavily damaged. Kim's House was completely annihilated, as was Bueno Nacho #582, and MHS was heavily, heavily damaged. It really sent home the message that this is the end of KP as we know it.

I have to wonder how the Stoppable house held up, though... there had to have been at least some collateral damage, I would figure...

2. Also, is it just me, or is it a bad omen for a villain to mess with Bueno Nacho? Drakken - ruins Bueno Nacho from the inside, plans ultimately thwarted. Lorwardia - destroys Bueno Nacho #582, takeover plan thwarted by plants (and heroes). Shego- destroys said Bueno Nacho in building her palace, winds up having her conquest not happen at all.

Not to mention how many times BN #582 has had its roof ripped off!

"What do you mean, our insurance policy no longer covers roof damage caused by mad scientists?"

I wonder if some future villain (a hardcore Bonnie, perhaps?) will notice this and make an explicit effort not to mess with BN? ;)

They could always try targeting Cow and Chow instead... :laugh:

[jeriddian]

You mean because of his experience working at Smarty-Mart? Interesting...I'd forgotten about his job there.
But the milion-dollar question is: What do you think Kim will major in?

International relations:)

[BluetoothThePirate]

I don't see Ron as anything resembling a businessman. Here's my capsule of the future continuity.

Ron and Kim go to the same state school, probably 40-50 miles from Middleton. Ron tries out for the football team, but gets supplanted by a golden boy scouted from south central LA, who is 220 lbs, 6'4", and faster than him.

He remains undeclared as long as the school will allow. Kim will complete three undergrad majors and get a masters degree in the time it takes Ron to finish a single bachelors, I'd say six to seven years. While on campus, Kim will work at the campus bookstore and teach self-defense classes at the campus rec center for spending money, with Ron as the mugger in the padded suit, and they'll both volunteer on the night patrol. Ron will be the wunderkind of the school cafeteria, making his residence hall the favorite eatery on campus. They'll also keep up with solving the occasional world crisis.

Kim stays in school not just because of Ron; several organizations and companies try to recruit her, all of whom want to in some way exploit her or leverage her to their own advantage. Rather than be pressured into compromising her ethics, she stays in academia until an opportunity comes along. Wade, with an angel investment from some influential and wealthy individuals, will found a global logistics and high-security transportation firm, catering to the scientific community. He'll put Kim and Ron on the payroll as a security consultant and a warehouse specialist, but that's just a front to allowing them to save the world full-time.

The tweebs will go to MIST, complete their degrees in a big hurry, have a falling out over a girl, and found rival space technology firms to race each other to the stars.

Bonnie will put in one year at college, but drop out with her Mrs. degree. Or rather her Sra. degree. Senora Senior will then go on to guide her husband and father-in-law to semi-legitimate, but still underhanded, business ventures that make them even wealthier.

Drakken retires for a little while, then starts up again on a small scale, by conquering a tiny country in South America that no one liked the government of anyway.

[campy]

Or: Ron majors in communications. Then, as undisputed Monkey Master, reassembles Monkey Fist's legion of monkey ninjas and scores his own series on the Simian Channel.

[jeriddian]

Or: Ron majors in communications. Then, as undisputed Monkey Master, reassembles Monkey Fist's legion of monkey ninjas and scores his own series on the Simian Channel.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[kyojikasshu]

Or: Ron majors in communications. Then, as undisputed Monkey Master, reassembles Monkey Fist's legion of monkey ninjas and scores his own series on the Simian Channel.

Well, it would secure the prophecy revealed at the end of "Monkey Ninjas In Space"... :laugh:

[Fireand'chutes77]

Holy asterisks.

:flabbergasted:

......



This is everything "So the Drama" wanted to be and failed to be.



....


Oh my god... they're destroying everything! :ohmy: The locker... Casa Possible... the school... Bueno Nacho... Ron' scooter... They really know how to break a series. :blink: :cry:

The rocket skates... Awesome! :D

Mr. Dr. Possible: "...But in college I wrote a "Captain Constellation fanfic..."

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

At least I'll die laughing. :laugh::laugh:


A subtle kinda of booyah - seeing the American flag still flying proudly - defiantly - above the tattered remains of Middleton High. :cool:


----

...Words fail me. I'm barely even typing coherently. That was probably a better ending than anything I could've imagined.


BOOYAH, KIM POSSIBLE, BOOOOYAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

:happy: :D :D


------------

EDIT: Is this the first time we've had people actually killed? To the best of my knowledge, Warhock and Warmonga were last seen vanishing under a fireball.

[TransWarpDrive]

So, 'chutes, I take it your DVD recorded OK? I remember you'd been having trouble recording discs in the past.

[TheGreenMagic]

EDIT: Is this the first time we've had people actually killed? To the best of my knowledge, Warhock and Warmonga were last seen vanishing under a fireball.

I'm guessing the implication is that Ron murdered the two of them, but it's easy enough to write off that they survived (and dealt with by whatever forces on Earth would capture them, GJ for instance), considering they are rather tough aliens for the most part. 'Sides, this is a show where Drakken survived his final scene in Mad Dogs and Aliens. Though that scene was played for laughs and we all know that when pain is intended to be funny that Doctor D exhibits levels of durability not seen since the glory days of Looney Tunes.

Then again, the final fate of Warmonga and Warhok could join the ranks of Eric and technically the Supreme One.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Then again, the final fate of Warmonga and Warhok could join the ranks of Eric and technically the Supreme One.
Speaking of the Supreme One (http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1569/spaceuv9.jpg)...

:cool: :thumbup: :cool:

New favorite screen cap... :happy: :P

I never got the vibes that the Supreme One/Shego died, though. Sure, Kim kicked her out of the vortex, but I don't think there's concrete proof that she fell out the smashed window.


So, 'chutes, I take it your DVD recorded OK? I remember you'd been having trouble recording discs in the past.

It did, thank you. :) However, I watched most of it on iTunes after the family room proved too noisy (we're getting a leak repaired).

[TransWarpDrive]

Actually, Future Shego did fall out the window after Kim kicked her, but in a Q&A on the old ARA forum, Steve Loter said she didn't die due to her ability to land on her feet like a cat. Remember how she successfully bailed out of Drakken's flying car before it crash-landed in Partners? I think that's what Steve was referring to.
Besides, nobody dies in "Kim Possible." (That's according to Steve.)

[Not The CrimpMaster]

I guess the general consensus is that Graduation beats So the Drama? As for me, I think they both have equal merits. StD was longer and had a more epic/movie-ish feel, but dragged a bit in some places. Graduation was shorter and seemed a bit rushed, more like an extended episode than a finale movie, but on the other hand it certainly didn't drag at all. More humor, less angst. And aliens. :D

[Cloud23465]

Did anyone catch these couple things like I did?
We finally got to know Mrs. Possibles first name Anne, And Barkin says that his senior year was the best 2 years of his life... correct me if i'm worng but uh... senior year was one and always has been right? :laugh:

[TransWarpDrive]

You're right, Cloud. You only get one Senior year in high school. Obviously, Mr. Barkin flunked so badly, he had to repeat his whole Senior year before he could graduate (at my high school, this was jokingly referred to as "the Five-Year Plan").
And yes, I caught Slim calling Mrs. Dr. P. "Annie," too. That means Kim was given her middle name, Ann, after her mother.

[Fireand'chutes77]

"Payback's the sitch"
I've heard that that line is a takeoff of something a bit more... risque. I guess I haven't seen the right movies. :huh:

"It happened on a Tuesday . . . "
Didn't.... Buffy the Vampire Slayer air on Tuesdays...? ....;)

Funny - I'd expected Ron to collapse as he sunk back to the ground after his MMP thing. Or at least announce something to the extent of, "Well, I guess that's all gone."

...Mr. Barkin was reduced to a crybaby. I was hoping that this would be the opportunity to see Mr. Barkin in his prime, to see the old soldier doing what he really wants to do - fight as a soldier in battle.
That saddened me too. I'd wanted to respect "Tough but Fair" Barkin.

When WarHoc hurled Kim to the ground... Ow. OW. :blink:

Ron certainly looks a lot more mature in a sleeveless shirt, for some reason.

[Cloud23465]

You're right, Cloud. You only get one Senior year in high school. Obviously, Mr. Barkin flunked so badly, he had to repeat his whole Senior year before he could graduate (at my high school, this was jokingly referred to as "the Five-Year Plan").
And yes, I caught Slim calling Mrs. Dr. P. "Annie," too. That means Kim was given her middle name, Ann, after her mother.

Dont wanna seem rude but in the thing with Steve loter chat from Rs.net he spelled it Anne. I guess the way Slim called it you would think it had an "I" in it... See [22:55] Here (http://ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=genkp&action=display&thread=1189223429)

[TransWarpDrive]

Also, am I the only one who think Drakken is done with villainy? Since he now has the "recognition" he thinks he deserves (well, now he sorta does deserve it), methink's he'll be settling down (maybe with Shego) and live a quiet life from now on. Though I'm sorta saddened by it - the KP world will miss something if Drakken and Shego aren't villains anymore.

I think he'll retire, too. He's earned the world's gratitude for his part in saving it, and (IMHO) that'll sufficiently stroke his ego that he'll give up on his plans for world conquest. All he really wanted, anyway, was respect from his peers (who ridiculed him instead).
But don't worry; instead of coming up with "take-over-the-world" schemes, Drakken will spend time coming up with equally ludicrous "get-rich-quick" schemes, which Shego will mock, as she usually does.

[TransWarpDrive]

You're right, Cloud. You only get one Senior year in high school. Obviously, Mr. Barkin flunked so badly, he had to repeat his whole Senior year before he could graduate (at my high school, this was jokingly referred to as "the Five-Year Plan").
And yes, I caught Slim calling Mrs. Dr. P. "Annie," too. That means Kim was given her middle name, Ann, after her mother.

Dont wanna seem rude but in the thing with Steve loter chat from Rs.net he spelled it Anne. I guess the way Slim called it you would think it had an "I" in it... See [22:55] Here (http://ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=genkp&action=display&thread=1189223429)

Okay, maybe her name is spelled "Anne,"* but in the paperback book, "The Kim Possible Files," there's a note from one of Kim's teachers where the teacher refers to Kim by her full name, "Kimberly Ann Possible," with no "E."** As I watched that scene, I'm fairly certain I heard Slim call Kim's mom "Annie," which is a fairly common nickname for "Ann" or "Anne." (Like "Kimmie's" a nickname for "Kim.")
*But maybe it isn't. If you look at the beginning of that RS.net transcript, Steve Loter himself warns the fans to "...expect a lot of spelling errors." So he could have misspelled Mrs. Dr. P.'s first name while chatting with the fans.
**And that book and the others are considered "canon," considering that the KP creative staff had input into their writing.
EDIT: Okay, sorry; Double post. My bad...:o

[canuck31003]

Funny - I'd expected Ron to collapse as he sunk back to the ground after his MMP thing. Or at least announce something to the extent of, "Well, I guess that's all gone."

My impression was that Ron didn't "use up" his MMP, just that Ron can now summon his MMP at will, like Sensei.

[lunchmeat]

You're right, Cloud. You only get one Senior year in high school. Obviously, Mr. Barkin flunked so badly, he had to repeat his whole Senior year before he could graduate (at my high school, this was jokingly referred to as "the Five-Year Plan").
And yes, I caught Slim calling Mrs. Dr. P. "Annie," too. That means Kim was given her middle name, Ann, after her mother.

For some of us, high school being a one shot thing was the one high point of the whole experience, I don't recall being a senior as anything special. I just wanted to get it over with and get on with something interesting, which college proved to be.

Poor old Barkin, he just seems to consistantly get the wrong end othe stick, guy has a lot of perceverence, though. Somebody had mentioned the thing about Jai Alai either here or in another thread. I think this is one of the many references to Airplane! that have appeared in the series. Jai Alai was, I think where the bar fight scene in the movie was. The jet taking Kim and the Army to Cambodia making piston engine noises seems to be another. I was kind of disappointed with the way Barkin was handled in the finale.

Not to read too much into it, but the demise of Pandaroo could also be interpreted as symbolic of a transition in Kim's life, as the destruction of the scooter might be for Ron. Bonnie had kind of a transition, too, she seemed to be digging in and working on her studies rather than joining the party at the beach.

[Cloud23465]

You're right, Cloud. You only get one Senior year in high school. Obviously, Mr. Barkin flunked so badly, he had to repeat his whole Senior year before he could graduate (at my high school, this was jokingly referred to as "the Five-Year Plan").
And yes, I caught Slim calling Mrs. Dr. P. "Annie," too. That means Kim was given her middle name, Ann, after her mother.

Dont wanna seem rude but in the thing with Steve loter chat from Rs.net he spelled it Anne. I guess the way Slim called it you would think it had an "I" in it... See [22:55] Here (http://ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=genkp&action=display&thread=1189223429)

Okay, maybe her name is spelled "Anne,"* but in the paperback book, "The Kim Possible Files," there's a note from one of Kim's teachers where the teacher refers to Kim by her full name, "Kimberly Ann Possible," with no "E."** As I watched that scene, I'm fairly certain I heard Slim call Kim's mom "Annie," which is a fairly common nickname for "Ann" or "Anne." (Like "Kimmie's" a nickname for "Kim.")
*But maybe it isn't. If you look at the beginning of that RS.net transcript, Steve Loter himself warns the fans to "...expect a lot of spelling errors." So he could have misspelled Mrs. Dr. P.'s first name while chatting with the fans.
**And that book and the others are considered "canon," considering that the KP creative staff had input into their writing.
EDIT: Okay, sorry; Double post. My bad...:o

But isn't when it's spelled Ann or Anne... couldn't the E be silent? I was expert in English so i'm not sure it this would work or not... But when it spoken I really dont hear the E if there is one.:confused::unsure:

[lunchmeat]

I have known quite a few Anns and Annes and can't recall anyone pronouncing them differently, the"e" is pretty much universally silent in modern useage. It might have been done differently in Elizabethan times, but seems to have fallen out of convention. Generally the only time I've heard the "e" was with a few who went by Annie.

[campy]

I'm pretty sure the use of 'Annie' was just a manifestation of Uncle Slim's folksiness. Most Ann/Annes I've known pronounce it the same whichever spelling they use.

[lunchmeat]

I missed the first fifteen minutes of the finale in the course of getting checked in. Based on the screen caps I've seen, I would agree about Slim's folksiness, given the big hugs he gave Kim and her mom.

[Fireand'chutes77]

I wonder how many fanfics this finale cranked with. :P :laugh:

Of mine, "Osama's Last Stand" and "The After" are so wildly AU that it probably doesn't matter, but there are a few small things... The Roth wasn't destroyed - I had erroneously identified pieces of the vaporizing Casa Possible in the promos to be car parts - so Kim getting a Subaru doesn't hold up. :rolleyes: I could ret-con the blast-walls in the "OLS" version of the house as an inclusion during the rebuild, but it's really too fleeting of a detail. In the very early stages of "OLS," I'd planned for the jet to crash right into the house (Anne still survived), but ironically I considered that too violent, because, "they [the KP Krew] would never destroy Kim's house!" :blink:


----

I wonder how the whole new D/S thing will pan out. I'm ambivalent to it, but it did provide a quick "Awww" in the closing minutes and followed the traditional happy-happy Disney formula.

Still, I'd never really envisioned them working as a couple... there's the age thing, for one. :confused:
I envision this to be almost sort of a "rebound" thing - after what just happened, they're real dang happy to even be alive. However, give it two or three months after the newness and glow wears off, and I can't exactly see it working. They'll realize that they really don't have any experience in this sort of thing - Shego's always been about the eye candy, and Drakken's.... Drakken. And then Shego might realize that her inbuilt sarcasm just doesn't... work. IMHO, they'd try it out for a little while before mutually - respectably - slipping back into more of a employer/employee relationship, but with some added good-natured ribbing similar to the K/R thing in S4 (which I thought was handled *very* well).

I'm not sure if I came across as I wanted to; these types of things are hard to organize into words. :errr:

--------

EDIT: Did we ever find out just what the "Great Blue" was? I think I missed it.

[jeriddian]

I wonder how many fanfics this finale cranked with. :P :laugh:

Of mine, "Osama's Last Stand" and "The After" are so wildly AU that it probably doesn't matter, but there are a few small things... The Roth wasn't destroyed - I had erroneously identified pieces of the vaporizing Casa Possible in the promos to be car parts - so Kim getting a Subaru doesn't hold up. :rolleyes: I could ret-con the blast-walls in the "OLS" version of the house as an inclusion during the rebuild, but it's really too fleeting of a detail. In the very early stages of "OLS," I'd planned for the jet to crash right into the house (Anne still survived), but ironically I considered that too violent, because, "they [the KP Krew] would never destroy Kim's house!" :blink:[quote]

Oh, the Fanfics will be flying furiously forever, Fireand'chutes77. MrDrP is already laying down the ground work of his next epic just for that. My 'Resolution' storyline is so rendered moot by S4, too many things in it cannot be kept. However, the main premise concerning Kim's abilities will still hold water, and I can base the revision on that. I will have to call it something else.

[quote=Fireand'cutes77]I wonder how the whole new D/S thing will pan out. I'm ambivalent to it, but it did provide a quick "Awww" in the closing minutes and followed the traditional happy-happy Disney formula.

Still, I'd never really envisioned them working as a couple... there's the age thing, for one. :confused:
I envision this to be almost sort of a "rebound" thing - after what just happened, they're real dang happy to even be alive. However, give it two or three months after the newness and glow wears off, and I can't exactly see it working. They'll realize that they really don't have any experience in this sort of thing - Shego's always been about the eye candy, and Drakken's.... Drakken. And then Shego might realize that her inbuilt sarcasm just doesn't... work. IMHO, they'd try it out for a little while before mutually - respectably - slipping back into more of a employer/employee relationship, but with some added good-natured ribbing similar to the K/R thing in S4 (which I thought was handled *very* well).

I'm not sure if I came across as I wanted to; these types of things are hard to organize into words. :errr:

I never saw Drakken being that much older than Shego. True, he's the same generation as MrDrP, and went to college with him, but it's possible he was several years younger, perhaps a young student prodigy similar to Wade, but not quite so young. I think it is possible that he is only about ten to fifteen years older than Shego. If so, it is not so inconceivable they could be together.

As to the ship working, I've seen stranger ones work out. It really depends on what she sees in him. She has to have a soft spot in her heart for him to stay with him as long as she has. Even after she gets frustrated and fed up with him and walks out on him (which she's done a time or two for various reasons), she always comes back to him. She really does appreciate his genius, misguided as it is. And he does have genius. It's just undisciplined, and made to look silly in the context of the cartoon itself. The last exchange between Kim and Shego in the Lowardian space craft shows it clearly.

Kim just grins and says, "You see? You do care?" Shego just looks at her with this resigned look and says nothing, but the look says it all. She couldn't deny it. Her sarcasm and put downs are her way of hiding her misgivings and vulnerability about the situation. As many times as she's said "oy", I have to think she might be Jewish, instead of Italian (which has always been the speculation), but I either way I get the sense she really wants to mother him a lot. That is pretty much what she does anyway.

EDIT: Did we ever find out just what the "Great Blue" was? I think I missed it.

We never found out what the Great Blue was. It was never mentioned in any way again except that Drakken was the "false" one

[Fireand'chutes77]

EDIT: Did we ever find out just what the "Great Blue" was? I think I missed it.

We never found out what the Great Blue was. It was never mentioned in any way again except that Drakken was the "false" one
OK, at least it wasn't just me. :)

EDIT: Wait - Ron got a massive blue aura around him, didn't he...? Sure, it was MMP, but still... :blink: :hmm:;)

EDIT2: I still can't get enough of "Frontline" by Pillar. It fits the episode so well. :D

It’s not like I’m walking alone into the valley of the shadow of death
Stand beside one 'nother, ‘cause it ain’t over yet,
I’d be willing to bet if we don’t back down
You and I will be the ones holdin' the crown in the end.
When it’s over, we can say, “Well done,”
But not yet, ‘cause it’s only begun!

So, pick up, and follow me, we’re the only ones
To fight this thing, until we’ve won!
Drive on and don’t look back,
It doesn’t mean we can’t learn from our past,
All the things that we mighta done wrong,
But we've been doing this all along!

Everybody, with your fists raised high,
Let me hear your battle cry tonight!
Stand beside, or step aside
On the frontline!

Everybody, with your fists raised high,
Let me hear your battle cry tonight!
Stand beside, or step aside,
On the frontline!

And we’ll be carrying on, until the day it doesn’t matter anymore,
Step aside, if you forgot what this is for.
We fight to live, we live to fight;
And tonight, you’ll hear my battle cry.
We live our lives on the frontlines
We’re not afraid of the fast times
These days have opened up my eyes!
And now, I see where the threat lies...

Everybody, with your fists raised high!
Let me hear your battle cry tonight!
Stand beside, or step aside,
On the frontline!

Everybody, with your fists raised high,
Let me hear your battle cry tonight!
Stand beside, or step aside
On the frontline...!

[jeriddian]

EDIT: Did we ever find out just what the "Great Blue" was? I think I missed it.

We never found out what the Great Blue was. It was never mentioned in any way again except that Drakken was the "false" one
OK, at least it wasn't just me. :)

EDIT: Wait - Ron got a massive blue aura around him, didn't he...? Sure, it was MMP, but still... :blink: :hmm:;)

You know, I thought of that, too! it seemd ironic that the Great Blue that what the Lowardians were searching for would actually be the thing that defeated them. I've been considering putting that in my Fan fic. Of course, I doubt we're the only ones who thought of it.:rolleyes:

[campy]

No one's commented on one of Warmonga's lines right before Drakken's flowers take down the walkers. She says: "Blue imposter. What were you thinking?" At first I thought she was addressing Drakken ... but it seems more like she's talking to Warhok, as if she blames him for pointing her towards Drakken as the GB.

If he really is "Mr. Warmonga" as Shego said, I guess Lorwardian marriages work similarly to ours. :laugh:

[jeriddian]

No one's commented on one of Warmonga's lines right before Drakken's flowers take down the walkers. She says: "Blue imposter. What were you thinking?" At first I thought she was addressing Drakken ... but it seems more like she's talking to Warhok, as if she blames him for pointing her towards Drakken as the GB.

If he really is "Mr. Warmonga" as Shego said, I guess Lorwardian marriages work similarly to ours. :laugh:

Good point. Nice catch on that.:)

[Fireand'chutes77]

Random comment - could we take out the "Lay off spoilers" bit from the thread title?

EDIT: There's an interesting conversation (http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/329/2751858/1/#2780228) ('bout halfway down) going on at FF.net about what might happen when Ron and Kim finally realize that, in effect, Ron killed two sentient beings when he zinged Warmonga and WarHoc into that incoming battlecruiser, and if he purposely meant to do it or not.

To paraphrase with a humorous quote by UltimateNacoTopping:

Forget K/R vs. Kigo. Intentional Killer Ron vs. Unintentional Killer Ron is the new rivalry in the fandom. ;)


I'll repost my comment:

Everyone seems to be overlooking the obvious. Ron killed in self-defense. Any race, alien or human, for that matter, that openly kills for pleasure by hanging the spine of its enemy on the wall for a trophy tells a lot about it. That's where they were going to hang Kim, right next to it. Their blatant disregard for all life different from theirs speaks volumes.
I was surprised by how graphic that statement was. The end of Graduation kicked up KP's seriousness in the same way "So the Drama" did with Shego flying into that electrical tower, but with a twist - it wasn't blatantly obvious. Perhaps even partially unintentional on the part of the creators, which makes it all the better. It didn't kick me in the teeth like "So the Drama..." It took a second and third look and some thinking before it sunk in.

As for me, I don't have too much sympathy for 'Monga and 'Hok, even though the explosion did make me wince. Unlike Ron, who may or may not have known where his hurlees were headed, the WarLordians invaded with explicit intention to dominate an entire planet by force. Think about how many people were in those buildings in Middleton that the ships crashed into, then multiply that around the world. Think of the staggering Earthside military casualties. This invasion meant certain megadeaths in densely-populated areas such as China and India and Japan. Even though Ron might feel a flicker of remorse, I don't think he's going to be too beat up about it as the fireball blossoms and reblossoms in his dreams. Those nightmares would likely be reserved for searing visions of a Middleton wasteland, and wondering what would've happened if 'Monga and 'Hok had missed.

Thoughts?

[jeriddian]

Random comment - could we take out the "Lay off spoilers" bit from the thread title?

Done.:biggergrin:

[TransWarpDrive]

Random comment - could we take out the "Lay off spoilers" bit from the thread title?

EDIT: There's an interesting conversation (http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/329/2751858/1/#2780228) ('bout halfway down) going on at FF.net about what might happen when Ron and Kim finally realize that, in effect, Ron killed two sentient beings when he zinged Warmonga and WarHoc into that incoming battlecruiser, and if he purposely meant to do it or not.

To paraphrase with a humorous quote by UltimateNacoTopping:

Forget K/R vs. Kigo. Intentional Killer Ron vs. Unintentional Killer Ron is the new rivalry in the fandom. ;)


I'll repost my comment:

Everyone seems to be overlooking the obvious. Ron killed in self-defense. Any race, alien or human, for that matter, that openly kills for pleasure by hanging the spine of its enemy on the wall for a trophy tells a lot about it. That's where they were going to hang Kim, right next to it. Their blatant disregard for all life different from theirs speaks volumes.
I was surprised by how graphic that statement was. The end of Graduation kicked up KP's seriousness in the same way "So the Drama" did with Shego flying into that electrical tower, but with a twist - it wasn't blatantly obvious. Perhaps even partially unintentional on the part of the creators, which makes it all the better. It didn't kick me in the teeth like "So the Drama..." It took a second and third look and some thinking before it sunk in.

As for me, I don't have too much sympathy for 'Monga and 'Hok, even though the explosion did make me wince. Unlike Ron, who may or may not have known where his hurlees were headed, the WarLordians invaded with explicit intention to dominate an entire planet by force. Think about how many people were in those buildings in Middleton that the ships crashed into, then multiply that around the world. Think of the staggering Earthside military casualties. This invasion meant certain megadeaths in densely-populated areas such as China and India and Japan. Even though Ron might feel a flicker of remorse, I don't think he's going to be too beat up about it as the fireball blossoms and reblossoms in his dreams. Those nightmares would likely be reserved for Middleton's destruction, and wondering what would've happened if 'Monga and 'Hok had missed.

Thoughts?

Well, considering the fact that Warhok promised to give Kim to Warmonga as a trophy to hang on her wall next to her other ones, and he did it right in front of Ron, I don't think Ron will agonize too much over killing those two. After all, it was either their lives or Kim's - a very easy choice for Ron to make, considering how much he loves Kim.

[jeriddian]

Well, first off, this is KP, and as Steve Loter has said, nobody dies on KP. That being said, it looks like that there would be no way the Lowardians could have survived their collision with their spaceship. This might have been intentional as I don't recall seeing any other such calamity befall any other character with such intensity or force. So MBS may have subtly indicated that the deaths of these characters could be inferred, but not definitively. I guess they would have to do it that way to get it past S&P.

I do believe Ron would not intend their deaths. His personality is such that even in the situation of defending Kim's life, he would still have some moral equivalence about killing, at least in the context of the show itself and the way MBS portrays Ron consistent with S&P protocols at Disney. In the Fan Fics, it's a different matter, as we all know. We are free to make those interpretations.

[TransWarpDrive]

You may be right - Ron probably didn't intend to kill them; he was just doing his utmost to defend Kim, and Warhok and Warmonga just happened to die in the fight. I still don't think Ron would lose any sleep over their deaths, considering (like I said before) what they'd planned to do to Kim.
I know I wouldn't feel guilty about offing those two, especially if they threatened someone I loved...:thumbdown:

[canuck31003]

For myself, I don't think Warmonga or Warhoc died in the explosion. We've seen KP, Ron, Shego, Drakken and countless other characters get things dropped on them or what have you that in the real world would kill them or at least cause extreme injury and trauma. Just because we don't see them afterwards doesn't necessarily mean they're dead. Besides, maybe alien physiology gives them resistance to explosives. :P

Maybe they've been incarcerated, or in hiding. Without their space ship and alien technology, I can imagine Warmonga/Warhoc trapped on earth, perhaps turning into the newest villains bent on world domination--with Drakken saving the day. :laugh:

The as yet unannounced Kim Possible sequel: Drew Lipsky, he can't do anything. :P

[Monstrorrendinformingens]

I don't believe they did this to have it look like they're dead. It's just a perfect way to take out the villains and the falling spaceship - and things flying away have to land somewhere or crash into something, I believe there is something about that in the "Naked Gun 33 1/3" audio commentary (the reason why they had a helicopter implemented afterwards seemingly was that otherwise Fred Ward just had been catapulted in to empty air).
Junior got well after his ray-therapy pretty soon, too (Oh Boys).
I think it has been done because it's the easy way to deal with problems. Sort of the same reason in reality: Killing and burning down of things and persons is mainly done because it's the easiest, least thought-intensive way - and probably the one most familiar to human nature, but that's just my cynicism.:thumbdown:

[nabusan]

EDIT: Is this the first time we've had people actually killed? To the best of my knowledge, Warhock and Warmonga were last seen vanishing under a fireball.

I'm guessing the implication is that Ron murdered the two of them, but it's easy enough to write off that they survived (and dealt with by whatever forces on Earth would capture them, GJ for instance), considering they are rather tough aliens for the most part.
Steve: "Well, it's like a cartoon death. It's just pencil and paint!"

Steve kinda conceded that they'd died, which is scary - 'cause I always thought no one died on KP.

[Cloud23465]

I think that he was really refering to the regular charaters... the one we'd see on a daily basis and just wasn't that evil. With all the chaos and death that the lorwardians bragged about causing... I think it'd only be right if they met there demise.

[lunchmeat]

I got to see about 3/4 of it last Friday. Pretty good, not quite epic, but still good.
Without getting overly analytical it seemed like the destruction of Ron's scooter and Pandaroo were meant to be symbolic of the transition into early adulthood and the change in Kim and Ron's lives with their graduation from high school (note: no breakfast foods were harmed in the preparation of this discussion).
Between Kim's brothers and the Diablos, the Possible house has been blown up too many times to worry about, so I didn't place a lot of significance on that one.
There were some characters that I would have liked to seen more of (in some cases, just seen, kind of weird having Sensei appear without Yori), but Steve Loter pointed out that they only had so much time to squeeze in as much as they did (given Disney's fondness for secondary marketing, I'm surprised that they didn't go the DCOM route for Graduation, even if they are trying to leave things open for KP to return a movie wouldn't be a problem, ASiT seemed to have no difficulties, there).
I wasn't real crazy about the end scenes, but you can't win them all, the credits were funny, after all. I'm stioll wondering about the genisis of "It was a Tuesday...." I had initially thought it might be a Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy reference, but that uses Thursday, instead.
It was nice that they tied some things up but left enough openings to avoid the "painted into a corner" effect that StD had.

[campy]

wondering about the genisis of "It was a Tuesday...." I had initially thought it might be a Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy reference, but that uses Thursday, instead.Well, there's an old movie comedy about tourism titled If It's Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium, and we know from HHGTG that 'Belgium' is the most unspeakably rude word in the entire galaxy, so maybe the connection lies somewhere in there.

[jeriddian]

I'm guessing the implication is that Ron murdered the two of them, but it's easy enough to write off that they survived (and dealt with by whatever forces on Earth would capture them, GJ for instance), considering they are rather tough aliens for the most part.

I think the word "murder" is the wrong word to use here. This was clearly a life or death struggle on both sides. Were they fighting to the death? Yes. But I wouldn't say murder. This was war.

[Cloud23465]

I'm guessing the implication is that Ron murdered the two of them, but it's easy enough to write off that they survived (and dealt with by whatever forces on Earth would capture them, GJ for instance), considering they are rather tough aliens for the most part.

I think the word "murder" is the wrong word to use here. This was clearly a life or death struggle on both sides. Were they fighting to the death? Yes. But I wouldn't say murder. This was war.

Got that right. Speaking of murder... How much longer is disney going to wait to show graduation again? I see now sign of it going to air again anytime soon. :errr:

[GoTeamGirl]

I'm guessing the implication is that Ron murdered the two of them, but it's easy enough to write off that they survived (and dealt with by whatever forces on Earth would capture them, GJ for instance), considering they are rather tough aliens for the most part.

I think the word "murder" is the wrong word to use here. This was clearly a life or death struggle on both sides. Were they fighting to the death? Yes. But I wouldn't say murder. This was war.

Got that right. Speaking of murder... How much longer is disney going to wait to show graduation again? I see now sign of it going to air again anytime soon. :errr:

It being a one hour episode, it would be hard to air if KP only has a half-hour time slot everyday. Unless they air one part after another for two days. I hope they re-show it soon, though.

[Monstrorrendinformingens]

Well, about deserving death after causing so much of it. The lines were something like "everyone's hiding from killer machines". That could have been "millions have been slaughtered", but it isn't. I think in a proper Disney cartoon universe they didn't take one little soul to where it goes after life - I mean, the diablos didn't even hurt anyone when they dropped out of the air like a rain of semi-sharp metal objects.
And a screen death may only be "not appearing on screen again", don't you think?

[campy]

["Graduation"] being a one hour episode, it would be hard to air if KP only has a half-hour time slot everyday. Unless they air one part after another for two days. I hope they re-show it soon, though.Not really, it's made to be shown in two parts. The iTunes version ends part 1 right after Kim's "Payback's the sitch line" and goes into some previews of Part 2. Part 2 then starts with a recap of Part 1 before going into the title song sequence.

Luckily iTunes allows one to set start and end points of playback so a seamless showing can be produced easily.

[lunchmeat]

EDIT: Is this the first time we've had people actually killed? To the best of my knowledge, Warhock and Warmonga were last seen vanishing under a fireball.

I'm guessing the implication is that Ron murdered the two of them, but it's easy enough to write off that they survived (and dealt with by whatever forces on Earth would capture them, GJ for instance), considering they are rather tough aliens for the most part.
Steve: "Well, it's like a cartoon death. It's just pencil and paint!"

Steve kinda conceded that they'd died, which is scary - 'cause I always thought no one died on KP.


Of course, when one considers Wiley Coyote......

[Cloud23465]

I'm guessing the implication is that Ron murdered the two of them, but it's easy enough to write off that they survived (and dealt with by whatever forces on Earth would capture them, GJ for instance), considering they are rather tough aliens for the most part.

I think the word "murder" is the wrong word to use here. This was clearly a life or death struggle on both sides. Were they fighting to the death? Yes. But I wouldn't say murder. This was war.

Got that right. Speaking of murder... How much longer is disney going to wait to show graduation again? I see now sign of it going to air again anytime soon. :errr:

It being a one hour episode, it would be hard to air if KP only has a half-hour time slot everyday. Unless they air one part after another for two days. I hope they re-show it soon, though.

It is set up for a two parter... Thats how it was when I watched it on Youtube... and boy, the announcer guy was Intense sounding when the were at the credits for the first episode talking about the second.

[BluetoothThePirate]

The way I see it, those machines weren't out to kill anyone at the beginning. Lorwardians are hunters, so they like to save the kill for themselves, thus the default setting for the robots is "contain, terrorize, capture." etc. So, most likely any casualties were accidental. They aren't that careful.

[fryfanSpyOrama]

I was listening to "Glory of Love" by Peter Cetera and it reminded me of Graduation in how Ron risked it all to save Kim. Maybe someone can do a fan video with that song and clips focusing of Kim/Ron relationship and maybe a little bit of Shego/Drakken.

[campy]

The way I see it, those machines weren't out to kill anyone at the beginning. Lorwardians are hunters, so they like to save the kill for themselves, thus the default setting for the robots is "contain, terrorize, capture." etc. So, most likely any casualties were accidental. They aren't that careful.I don't know, one of the world domination munitions Warmonga gave Drakken in "MD&A" was called an Annihilatron. Doesn't sound like something designed to "contain" or "capture" to me. And the one that depletes a planet's atmosphere of oxygen wouldn't make for a very exciting hunt either.

[Monstrorrendinformingens]

If you don't like hunting anaerobe bacteria with your microscope.

I'd say even a hunter can have terrible things which don't leave any prey to collect - see the arm bomb from "Predator".
But I guess the whole hunting chat from Graduation (couldn't we just call it "G"?) is more one of those "what the young Klingon warrior does before he starts her/his first crusade" things. It's quite typical that a warrior proves the necessary skill by hunting down something big and then goes out to gather fame and glory fighting "intelligent prey".
But given the trophy-talk during the last third and the babbling about invasion records it's obvious they have quite a sport-like approach to what they are doing. That alone just doesn't rule out either careless killing or conscious sparing of lifes, as far as I can see now.

[cpneb]

If you don't like hunting anaerobe bacteria with your microscope.

I'd say even a hunter can have terrible things which don't leave any prey to collect - see the arm bomb from "Predator".
But I guess the whole hunting chat from Graduation (couldn't we just call it "G"?) is more one of those "what the young Klingon warrior does before he starts her/his first crusade" things. It's quite typical that a warrior proves the necessary skill by hunting down something big and then goes out to gather fame and glory fighting "intelligent prey".
But given the trophy-talk during the last third and the babbling about invasion records it's obvious they have quite a sport-like approach to what they are doing. That alone just doesn't rule out either careless killing or conscious sparing of lifes, as far as I can see now.

There have been several Star Trek episodes addressing aliens and the hunt (ST: Original, Voyager, and I think I remember a DS9 episode, as well). The concept of the mounting sounded familiar; of course, it's based on our own realities, whether we wish to admit it or not.

[jeriddian]

If you don't like hunting anaerobe bacteria with your microscope.

I'd say even a hunter can have terrible things which don't leave any prey to collect - see the arm bomb from "Predator".
But I guess the whole hunting chat from Graduation (couldn't we just call it "G"?) is more one of those "what the young Klingon warrior does before he starts her/his first crusade" things. It's quite typical that a warrior proves the necessary skill by hunting down something big and then goes out to gather fame and glory fighting "intelligent prey".
But given the trophy-talk during the last third and the babbling about invasion records it's obvious they have quite a sport-like approach to what they are doing. That alone just doesn't rule out either careless killing or conscious sparing of lifes, as far as I can see now.

There have been several Star Trek episodes addressing aliens and the hunt (ST: Original, Voyager, and I think I remember a DS9 episode, as well). The concept of the mounting sounded familiar; of course, it's based on our own realities, whether we wish to admit it or not.

I think one of the best concepts (first movie only) for the alien hunter society is Predator.

[Monstrorrendinformingens]

Wasn't there a DS9 episode "Tusk the hunted" or something like that? I always liked that one because it pictured hunters who admire their prey and spend a lot and risk their life in order to put up with someone equal. That's not what Warmonga and -hok did. They abducted the two Earthlings they knew and threw random destruction on the others. Less respect I'd say.
Predator on the other hand shows a hunter who just wants the trophies and doesn't care about the prey having much of a chance. Well, he seems to like that Arnie's role puts a little more of a fight than usual, but all in all you see a sadistic murderer who enjoys his superiority and collects skulls.
I think the Larwordians we saw don't fit either of these categories. And I can't see where they might lie between them. so I guess they are rather some kind of Disney-Klingons (a little less violence, a little less cold war, a little more punch lines).

[cpneb]

I think the Larwordians we saw don't fit either of these categories. And I can't see where they might lie between them. so I guess they are rather some kind of Disney-Klingons (a little less violence, a little less cold war, a little more punch lines).

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

[Monstrorrendinformingens]

Well, I still think Warmonga is cute. Horrifyingly cute for a woman of that size.

How about a spin-off "Warmonga Space Warrior Princess"?:errr:

[Fireand'chutes77]

A few questions raised by Canuck in the VIP Chat thread; I didn't think it right to answer them there if I didn't have a question to add.
Here's a couple that come to my mind:

1) After the climax of Graduation, do you see Ron now an now being able to summon mystical monkey power at will?

2) What do you see Drakken doing in the future--is he now retired from the 'world domination' business and trying something new?
1. Personally, I can't. I see it more as an involuntary rise once he's been really, really tweaked (Kim gets incapacitated; BN is destroyed, etc).

2. For some reason, I can't picture Drakken ever really stopping his efforts to take over the world. I'd fully expect him to go on the down-low in the ensuing months after the invasion, all swelled up with pride and goodness at his medal and the recognition, trying to walk the straight and narrow.... but give it six months, a year, maybe a year and a half, and I can hear Shego whining, "I'm really friggin' bored...! I just wanna rob somethin'!" and the statement lures Drakken yet another step closer to his original dream...

[Molloy]

I did not get to watch "Graduation" until last Saturday (more than a full week after it premiered on TV), so I apologize if what I am bringing up has already been discussed ad nauseum.

One aspect I have seen discussed is whether the Larwordians die after their fight with Ron and, if so, what the implications are for the nature of the KP universe where 'no one is ever supposed to die.'

Well, I believe a finale forum with Steve Loter put the matter to rest: they did die when they collided with their crashing warship.

Okay, then what does this mean for the KP universe?

Well, first of all, does this make Ron a killer/murderer. I would say no for the simple reason that the Larwordians die in the typical Disney animated fashion that most villains die.

Like Clayton in Tarzan, they are killed because of something the hero does that coincides with something they themselves have already put into motion. Tarzan knocks Clayton off a branch where he gets entangled in vines. He violently chops at the vines to cut himself free only to leave one vine holding him up ... around his neck. In short, although the hero put the villain in the position where he dies, it was neither his intention to kill the villain nor his action that actually finished him off. Some might argue this is having one's cake and not having to slice it or something ... but this is how Disney does things.

Ron tosses the Larwordians into the air where they just happen to collide with their spaceship. I would argue Ron was just trying "kick them to the curb" and had no intention on ending their lives. The fact that he just happened to send them on a trajectory that matched their falling spaceship's was not intentional--so much as it was another example of Ron's "dumb luck/dumb skills." It was the spaceship's explosion that actually killed them.

True, this sitch is not as clear-cut as the Tarzan example. In that instance, the writing was abundantly clear that it was the villain who killed himself--Tarzan saw what was going to happen and even tried to stop Clayton from cutting the last few vines.

So, in my view, Ron is innocent of murder.

I guess in the end, the real reason I am not troubled by the Larwordians' demise is because they deserved it. ;)

Putting aside my obviously strong feelings about Kim, these two jerks go around conquering and enslaving entire planets just for the fun of it. Villain with a capital IN (and, no, I am not really sure what that means :) ). Who knows what body counts (or to be Disney-esque, slave populations) they have left behind on multiple worlds? As someone else pointed out, Warmonga had a machine for sucking all the breathable atmosphere from a planet--that is not sporting--that is mass murder.

And to bring Kim back into it, you hurt KP and you reap the Stoppable whirlwind.

To paraphrase a couple of lines from David Lynch's INLAND EMPIRE:

"They reaped what they'd been sowing, and they'd been sowing some pretty heavy f****** s***!"

[MrDrP]

A few questions raised by Canuck in the VIP Chat thread; I didn't think it right to answer them there if I didn't have a question to add.
Here's a couple that come to my mind:

1) After the climax of Graduation, do you see Ron now an now being able to summon mystical monkey power at will?

2) What do you see Drakken doing in the future--is he now retired from the 'world domination' business and trying something new?
1. Personally, I can't. I see it more as an involuntary rise once he's been really, really tweaked (Kim gets incapacitated; BN is destroyed, etc).

2. For some reason, I can't picture Drakken ever really stopping his efforts to take over the world. I'd fully expect him to go on the down-low in the ensuing months after the invasion, all swelled up with pride and goodness at his medal and the recognition, trying to walk the straight and narrow.... but give it six months, a year, maybe a year and a half, and I can hear Shego whining, "I'm really friggin' bored...! I just wanna rob somethin'!" and the statement lures Drakken yet another step closer to his original dream...

I think Ron will be able to call on the MMP at will. Sensei told him to summon the power, which he did. And, it responded. There was no intermittency to Ron's power and he seemed to be very much in control of the situation.

[jeriddian]

Putting aside my obviously strong feelings about Kim, these two jerks go around conquering and enslaving entire planets just for the fun of it. Villain with a capital IN (and, no, I am not really sure what that means :) ). Who knows what body counts (or to be Disney-esque, slave populations) they have left behind on multiple worlds? As someone else pointed out, Warmonga had a machine for sucking all the breathable atmosphere from a planet--that is not sporting--that is mass murder.

And to bring Kim back into it, you hurt KP and you reap the Stoppable whirlwind.

You know, this just brings the whole perspective in question. We are dealing with what is a Disney cartoon show. Certain things are to be expected with this, which are that by nature of such a production the issues and stories are supposed to be lighthearted, pleasantly entertaing on a certain age level, comedic to the degree that Disney cartoons are noted for being, and not terribly straining in divisive social issues. In other words, things are kept very black and white. The trick here is that when you run up against something like the demise of the Lowardians, the concept of the hero actual taking the life of another comes into play. But that idea is always very downplayed. As Steve Loter said , "It was only a paints and pencil death." (paraphrase).

So the the fact that the characters died is downplayed as not that important by emphasizing that they are nothing more than cartoon characters and therefore not much was really lost, rather than trying to concentrate on the actual philosophical issues involved of having one of the main characters actually kill someone on a cartoon show where nobody is supposed to die.

It's fun for us to kibbitz the show this way and think these things through, although for the show's creators, they usually don't take it that far in terms of thinking these things out. They do make some continuity errors here and there for the sake of streamlining the show and creating a unique moment or situation (or just trying to meet deadline and missing them).

If they went on to a season five, I would think that if they ever brought the Lowardians back into play, they would resurrect both Warmonga and Warhok to maintain the principle that "nobody dies on the show", and make up some explanation as to how they survived. But since it is the series finale, they got a bigger bang out of the fact the Lowardians look like they were actually killed.

[Molloy]

It's fun for us to kibbitz the show this way and think these things through, although for the show's creators, they usually don't take it that far in terms of thinking these things out. They do make some continuity errors here and there for the sake of streamlining the show and creating a unique moment or situation (or just trying to meet deadline and missing them).

Perspective is a good point to make.

Maybe it is because I write that I think most things too far.

[jeriddian]

It's fun for us to kibbitz the show this way and think these things through, although for the show's creators, they usually don't take it that far in terms of thinking these things out. They do make some continuity errors here and there for the sake of streamlining the show and creating a unique moment or situation (or just trying to meet deadline and missing them).

Perspective is a good point to make.

Maybe it is because I write that I think most things too far.

That's what we all do, of course, taking it to the nth degree. It's so much fun!:P:laugh:

[The Creeping Spleen]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

[cpneb]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

[The Creeping Spleen]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

[cpneb]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

Yea, but she had her heart set on a Sleeping Beauty gown, waiting for her Prince Charming Warhok. That's really the reason they came back to Earth, you know: she picked up the Disney Channel broadcasts, and she fell in love with the Dwarves and a magic glass slipper (now, that's gonna be one big shoe!" :eek: :scared:

[The Creeping Spleen]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

Yea, but she had her heart set on a Sleeping Beauty gown, waiting for her Prince Charming Warhok. That's really the reason they came back to Earth, you know: she picked up the Disney Channel broadcasts, and she fell in love with the Dwarves and a magic glass slipper (now, that's gonna be one big shoe!" :eek: :scared:

Shoe?!? Canoe, surely... ;)

[ncnu]

Has it been brought up yet that Kim's post-graduation romp with Monique has her in a repaired gown and pristine pre-abduction hairstyle? I'm guessing the scene is from one of the alternate endings, and had to be used as is due to the time and budget constraints.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Welcome to GJA, Ncnu! :D

-----

A thought -

What happened to Prof. Chen? The last we heard of him, he was attempting (unsuccessfully) to warn Mr. Dr. P, and then the cell connection went chillingly dead as the alien ships moved in.

Does this raise the possibility that Chen was iced? If the Warlordians were as good as their rep, they'd use a tactical maneuver adhered to by every military in the world - that is, silence and destroy as many sentry and early-warning posts as you can before the main force rolls. In interplanetary warfare, a telescope complex counts as an early warning post, and therefore would be considered an A-list target for the preemptive strike. Particularly if it's in the area of a prime abduction target...


------

On an unrelated note, the "To be continued..." teaser at the end of Graduation Pt. 1 is friggin' awesome. The background music should have been used more often. Very, very cool. :D

Once I start, I just can't stop commenting! :laugh:

---

"...This ends now!"

"Not yet... But... very, very soon." :biggergrin: :laugh: :cool:

---

"Prepare... to... taste... defeat! And boy, is it salty!!"

:happy: :thumbup:

[TransWarpDrive]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

Yea, but she had her heart set on a Sleeping Beauty gown, waiting for her Prince Charming Warhok. That's really the reason they came back to Earth, you know: she picked up the Disney Channel broadcasts, and she fell in love with the Dwarves and a magic glass slipper (now, that's gonna be one big shoe!" :eek: :scared:

Shoe?!? Canoe, surely... ;)

The two of you are really demented...

- Which means you fit right in with the rest of us on the GJA! :laugh:

[cpneb]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

Yea, but she had her heart set on a Sleeping Beauty gown, waiting for her Prince Charming Warhok. That's really the reason they came back to Earth, you know: she picked up the Disney Channel broadcasts, and she fell in love with the Dwarves and a magic glass slipper (now, that's gonna be one big shoe!" :eek: :scared:

Shoe?!? Canoe, surely... ;)

The two of you are really demented...

- Which means you fit right in with the rest of us on the GJA! :laugh:

HEY! I resemble that remark! You're talking to the Angst-Master General, the creator of DominAmy, the one who sane writers fear and makes teenage boys cry when they read Stephanie's story...

Demented is an understatement: at least I don't write RuGo; I have dabbled in MoRa, however, and I am having fun with Alex Safic from SlashHaven (aka the background lesbian).

I suppose demented is better than Dementored....

[TransWarpDrive]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

Yea, but she had her heart set on a Sleeping Beauty gown, waiting for her Prince Charming Warhok. That's really the reason they came back to Earth, you know: she picked up the Disney Channel broadcasts, and she fell in love with the Dwarves and a magic glass slipper (now, that's gonna be one big shoe!" :eek: :scared:

Shoe?!? Canoe, surely... ;)

The two of you are really demented...

- Which means you fit right in with the rest of us on the GJA! :laugh:

HEY! I resemble that remark! You're talking to the Angst-Master General, the creator of DominAmy, the one who sane writers fear and makes teenage boys cry when they read Stephanie's story...

Demented is an understatement: at least I don't write RuGo; I have dabbled in MoRa, however, and I am having fun with Alex Safic from SlashHaven (aka the background lesbian).

I suppose demented is better than Dementored....

:laugh:
You're only Dementored if you've been taking lessons from the Professor... :P

[The Creeping Spleen]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

Yea, but she had her heart set on a Sleeping Beauty gown, waiting for her Prince Charming Warhok. That's really the reason they came back to Earth, you know: she picked up the Disney Channel broadcasts, and she fell in love with the Dwarves and a magic glass slipper (now, that's gonna be one big shoe!" :eek: :scared:

Shoe?!? Canoe, surely... ;)

The two of you are really demented...

- Which means you fit right in with the rest of us on the GJA! :laugh:

Why thank you. That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me al day. ;)

[cpneb]

Disney-Klingons, eh? :biggergrin: mentally picturing a Larwordian Magic Kingdom, complete with Warmonga in an XXXXL Sleeping Beauty gown and a size 25 Mickey Mouse set of ears.

LMAO!

You have no idea how disturbing that image is... :blink:

Come on, Spleen, where's your sense of adventure? It's much easier to imagine this than DominAmy, no?

Besides, Warmonga would look cute in the Mickey ears, as long as she didn't try to eat them, first.

Actually, Warmonga could probably get a job in a Marvel comics theme park - playing She-Hulk, naturally. ;)

Yea, but she had her heart set on a Sleeping Beauty gown, waiting for her Prince Charming Warhok. That's really the reason they came back to Earth, you know: she picked up the Disney Channel broadcasts, and she fell in love with the Dwarves and a magic glass slipper (now, that's gonna be one big shoe!" :eek: :scared:

Shoe?!? Canoe, surely... ;)

The two of you are really demented...

- Which means you fit right in with the rest of us on the GJA! :laugh:

Why thank you. That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me al day. ;)

If I'm mentoring writers on FF.net, doesn't that make me 'De-Mentor'?

On that note, I think that this thread has gone as far as it could...please.

[Ace Ian Combat]

No, I've got something.

If Team Go was at Drakken's award banquet, where was the other Wego? I only saw three members. Unless someone's belief that there really is one Wego is really true (I can't remember where that's from though.).

On a side note, my friends BD and Lupe were very upset, as was I. This is something I have to tell you because it's too humiliatingly embarrassing to not point out... and I'm never inviting both of them over to watch a cartoon finale with me again.

Okay, so we're all pumped up about Graduation. BD and myself are girls, and Lupe is a boy. He's bouncing around on the back of the couch as we watch the finale, when suddenly, he slips and we hear a loud thump. Turns out he's fallen off the back of the couch and hit his head. Hard.

So, we're trying to revive him (thankfully this was during a commercial), and basically freaking out because he won't wake up. BD eventually pours some water up his nose in classic BD form, and that wakes him up. Well, not technically him. He looks at the two of us, confused for a second, then turns to BD and goes, "Ron?"

Picture me snorting in laughter because besides BD being a girl, she looks nothing like Ron. She gets this offended look that changes into her own smirk when Lupe turns to me and asks, "What happened Mom?" Now I'm the one offended.

BD questions, "Just to make sure we're all on the same page here, what's your name?" Apparently we both had the same terrible thought running through our heads: Either he thinks he's Kim or Hana.

Lupe blinks, and replies, "Kim Possible." BD and I groan. This is not what we want to hear during the finale! (I believe it is this exact moment that BD later tells me is when his tape to record the finale runs out at home because his VCR eats tapes for breakfast, using more room than necessary. So an eight hour tape did not have enough room for an hour long show, and it was a new tape too.)

At least BD and I can understand something of why Lupe thinks I'm Mrs. Dr. P. since AP (who sadly was not there, though I'm not sure what would have happened then) has pointed out the similarities of hair color and eyes.

Now I bring you to the worst case scenario: My mom enters the room. Some of you might remember how I've stated her resemblance to Shego. Lupe 'Kim' sees it to.

We spent the rest of the hour with BD distracting my mom to prevent her from entering the room again while I tried to grab the VCR remote from Lupe, who had taken it upon himself to use as a weapon against 'Shego', all the while attempting to sneak past me out of the room and whap 'Shego' with the remote. This effectively ruined my attempt to tape Graduation as well as I was editing out commercials, and this started during a commercial. Eventually BD just hit Lupe as hard upside the head as she could following the credits, and apparently that work. [Sarcasm] The best part? Lupe doesn't remember any of it. [Sarcasm/]:rolleyes:

See what I have to put up with?:laugh: Why me?

Another thing, could someone provide a picture of the girl in blue so I know who you're talking about please?

[campy]

Another thing, could someone provide a picture of the girl in blue so I know who you're talking about please?http://caps.kpfanworld.com/images/crush/0510.jpg

Here you go, AIC. :D

[Fireand'chutes77]

So, we're trying to revive him (thankfully this was during a commercial), and basically freaking out because he won't wake up. BD eventually pours some water up his nose in classic BD form, and that wakes him up. Well, not technically him. He looks at the two of us, confused for a second, then turns to BD and goes, "Ron?"

...She gets this offended look that changes into her own smirk when Lupe turns to me and asks, "What happened Mom?" Now I'm the one offended.

BD questions, "Just to make sure we're all on the same page here, what's your name?" Apparently we both had the same terrible thought running through our heads: Either he thinks he's Kim or Hana.

Lupe blinks, and replies, "Kim Possible."
Wow... That's some (relatively) serious brain damage. :blink: Are you sure he wasn't just joking around by the time you got to the whole Shego/remote thing?


On a side note, my friends BD and Lupe were very upset, as was I. This is something I have to tell you because it's too humiliatingly embarrassing to not point out... and I'm never inviting both of them over to watch a cartoon finale with me again.
Well, you can't exactly predict a whack to the head... Before reading the rest of the post, I'd thought they'd made scathing remarks about the whole thing, but...

As for your recording issues, have you tried using iTunes?

[TransWarpDrive]

Sorry you didn't get to tape the finale, Ace.
You should be able to catch a repeat in the near future. Cloud23465 said that, according to the schedule he just saw, KP's back on in the afternoons starting October 1 at 2:30 PM Eastern time. And the episode they're showing that day is Part 1 of "Graduation," so at least you can get that much on tape.
My policy regarding taping a show I really want to save is, "When in doubt, start a new cassette." That way I know there'll be room on the tape. Plus, I set up my timer in advance, and I don't worry about editing out commercials (I just fast-forward through them using my remote - :P). I also set the timer to begin recording five minutes before the show starts, and to stop five minutes after it ends. That allows for variances between my VCR clock and the network's clock.
As for your friend Lupe's behavior after bumping his head, well, either he was playing a joke on you by pretending to be Kim or else he suffered a mild head injury - especially if he became so disoriented that he thought he was Kim and your mom was Shego. If that was the case, Lupe should have been taken to see a doctor right away to make sure he wasn't seriously hurt.

[cpneb]

Another thing, could someone provide a picture of the girl in blue so I know who you're talking about please?http://caps.kpfanworld.com/images/crush/0510.jpg

Here you go, AIC. :D

Below are two different pictures of 'the girl in blue': first is the model sheet showing her as incidental character kid #2, and, second, is a picture of her from the opening credits of seasons 1-3 (and she appears to have lost weight from the picture above (LOL!)). You can click on both to expand.

She has no canon name: there is a reference to 'Platt' as possibly her last name in the skiing episode, but there is no reference to whether they are talking about her, the boy with her, or both: I chose, in my fanfiction stories, to point the name to him. I've gone with Sarah Janine Best (to allow the takeoff from 'Anything's Possible' to 'the Best, never rest'). JAKT has also adopted the name in their ongoing stories.

[cpneb]

campy, you knew I'd respond, didn't you? After writing a story about her (as far as I know, the first story about her where she is the central character) and incorporating her in my work, she has become as integral to most of my stories as Tara or Christly or Marcella, if not more so. I set her as Wade's next door neighbor, and that leads to all sorts of interesting {EDIT}sitches.

are you happy now, TransWarpDrive? LOL!

[TransWarpDrive]

....and that leads to all sorts of interesting soutaches.
:laugh:
What's a "soutache?" Is that any thing like a moustache? :laugh:
Did you mean, "...all sorts of interesting sitches?" :P
(Just kidding, of course...)

[Ace Ian Combat]

His mom took him to the doctor soon afterward. Turns out he got a mild concussion or something of the same nature. Besides, he's worse than the real Kim is when it comes to lying (or acting).:laugh:

Okay, now I know who the girl in blue is. I seem to have just been under the impression that she was Linda Platt for the last five years is why I could not make the connection. Thinking back on it, only her (plausible) brother Alan Platt was mentioned in Downhill, although it seemed to be implied. I could have sworn the name Linda Platt was mentioned too. Hmm...

EDIT: This is the closest I could find.

[Quote]Bonnie: ( giggles )
Kim's Mom: The Platts came down with the flu at the last minute.
Platts: Whoo-hoo!
Kim's Mom: So we grabbed our gear, dropped the boys at Nana's, and
high-tailed it right over.[Quote/]

[cpneb]

His mom took him to the doctor soon afterward. Turns out he got a mild concussion or something of the same nature. Besides, he's worse than the real Kim is when it comes to lying (or acting).:laugh:

Okay, now I know who the girl in blue is. I seem to have just been under the impression that she was Linda Platt for the last five years is why I could not make the connection. Thinking back on it, only her (plausible) brother Alan Platt was mentioned in Downhill, although it seemed to be implied. I could have sworn the name Linda Platt was mentioned too. Hmm...

EDIT: This is the closest I could find.

[Quote]Bonnie: ( giggles )
Kim's Mom: The Platts came down with the flu at the last minute.
Platts: Whoo-hoo!
Kim's Mom: So we grabbed our gear, dropped the boys at Nana's, and
high-tailed it right over.[Quote/]

As far as I and several others have been able to find, that's the only reference to a 'possible' (no pun intended) name (either first or last) for her. The same holds true for the tall girl that seems to appear in episodes with her on a semi-frequent basis: they both have several individual appearances. Over on GP SlashHaven, one of the writers named her Alex Civic: I've carried that across into my tales, as well, having her original name as Alexis and shortening it to Alex when she decided to 'play for the other team.' ;)

[campy]

His mom took him to the doctor soon afterward. Turns out he got a mild concussion or something of the same nature. Besides, he's worse than the real Kim is when it comes to lying (or acting).:laugh:

Okay, now I know who the girl in blue is. I seem to have just been under the impression that she was Linda Platt for the last five years is why I could not make the connection. Thinking back on it, only her (plausible) brother Alan Platt was mentioned in Downhill, although it seemed to be implied. I could have sworn the name Linda Platt was mentioned too. Hmm...

EDIT: This is the closest I could find.

Bonnie: ( giggles )
Kim's Mom: The Platts came down with the flu at the last minute.
Platts: Whoo-hoo!
Kim's Mom: So we grabbed our gear, dropped the boys at Nana's, and
high-tailed it right over.The name 'Linda Platt' comes from fan fiction.

In the opening of "Downhill" girl in blue is standing behind Alan Platt when Kim and Ron are talking about his trip to Humiliation Nation as son of the chaperones. When the Drs P announce they're the substitute chaperones, Alan and the girl then high-five. I think it's much more likely the girl is just a friend of his, or else K&R (who clearly know her, as we know from "Crush" and "Mind Games") would have mentioned her as well as Alan.

[Fireand'chutes77]

His mom took him to the doctor soon afterward. Turns out he got a mild concussion or something of the same nature.
That must have been an interesting doctor's visit. :laugh:

Doc: ...So your friends reported that during your disorientation period, you... *Glances at patient record sheet* ...Huh?

Lupe: :errr: :blush:

It would be interesting to get Jeriddian's take on this. :D


Okay, so we're all pumped up about Graduation. BD and myself are girls, and Lupe is a boy..... (I believe it is this exact moment that BD later tells me is when his tape to record the finale runs out at home because his VCR eats tapes for breakfast, using more room than necessary....)OK, now I'm confused. :huh:

[jeriddian]

[quote=Fireand'chutes77;3701][
It would be interesting to get Jeriddian's take on this. :D [quote]

Hmmmm.....:hmm: hard to say. Since I wasn't there to observe. any number of possibilities spring to mind. The fact he lost consciousness (or did he really?) however, is never good. Definite concussion. and the weird behavior afterwards is certainly possible. They did the right thing in taking him to the doctor.

Reminds of Chekhov in Star Trek IV, when he was being interrogated under truth serum......

"Name!"
"Chekhov............"
"Rank"
"Admiral..............":P:laugh:

[Fireand'chutes77]

[quote=Fireand'chutes77;3701][
It would be interesting to get Jeriddian's take on this. :D [quote]

Hmmmm.....:hmm: hard to say. Since I wasn't there to observe. any number of possibilities spring to mind. The fact he lost consciousness (or did he really?) however, is never good. Definite concussion. and the weird behavior afterwards is certainly possible. They did the right thing in taking him to the doctor.

Reminds of Chekhov in Star Trek IV, when he was being interrogated under truth serum......

"Name!"
"Chekhov............"
"Rank"
"Admiral..............":P:laugh:
Chekhov... That name seems familier... Not the same Chekhov as in Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun), is it?

[jeriddian]

[quote=Fireand'chutes77;3701][
It would be interesting to get Jeriddian's take on this. :D [quote]

Hmmmm.....:hmm: hard to say. Since I wasn't there to observe. any number of possibilities spring to mind. The fact he lost consciousness (or did he really?) however, is never good. Definite concussion. and the weird behavior afterwards is certainly possible. They did the right thing in taking him to the doctor.

Reminds of Chekhov in Star Trek IV, when he was being interrogated under truth serum......

"Name!"
"Chekhov............"
"Rank"
"Admiral..............":P:laugh:
Chekhov... That name seems familier... Not the same Chekhov as in Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun), is it?

Don't think so. I take it you are not a Star Trek fan? Pavel Chekhov (played by Walter Koenig) is one of the original crew of the original Star Trek series in the late 1960's, and of course in the movies Star Trak I through VI. TWD can give you a much more detailed history about him, I'm sure.:)

[TransWarpDrive]

[quote=Fireand'chutes77;3701][
It would be interesting to get Jeriddian's take on this. :D [quote]

Hmmmm.....:hmm: hard to say. Since I wasn't there to observe. any number of possibilities spring to mind. The fact he lost consciousness (or did he really?) however, is never good. Definite concussion. and the weird behavior afterwards is certainly possible. They did the right thing in taking him to the doctor.

Reminds of Chekhov in Star Trek IV, when he was being interrogated under truth serum......

"Name!"
"Chekhov............"
"Rank"
"Admiral..............":P:laugh:
Chekhov... That name seems familier... Not the same Chekhov as in Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun), is it?

Don't think so. I take it you are not a Star Trek fan? Pavel Chekhov (played by Walter Koenig) is one of the original crew of the original Star Trek series in the late 1960's, and of course in the movies Star Trek I through VI. TWD can give you a much more detailed history about him, I'm sure.:)
Jeriddian's correct. The character he's referring to, Pavel Chekov, first appeared on the original Star Trek series in the show's second season. He did indeed appear in the first six Trek movies, as well as in the beginning of the seventh film, Star Trek: Generations.
I think the "Chekhov" you're confusing him with is Anton Chekhov, the famous Russian author and playwright (1860-1904). :alumnus:
Oh, and in the scene you're referring to in Star Trek IV, Chekov wasn't under truth serum. He was coming out of anesthesia after Dr. McCoy successfully repaired his brain injury in that 20th-Century San Francisco hospital (after Admiral Kirk locked the surgical team in the closet and melted its lock with his phaser).

[jeriddian]

[quote=Fireand'chutes77;3701][
It would be interesting to get Jeriddian's take on this. :D [quote]

Hmmmm.....:hmm: hard to say. Since I wasn't there to observe. any number of possibilities spring to mind. The fact he lost consciousness (or did he really?) however, is never good. Definite concussion. and the weird behavior afterwards is certainly possible. They did the right thing in taking him to the doctor.

Reminds of Chekhov in Star Trek IV, when he was being interrogated under truth serum......

"Name!"
"Chekhov............"
"Rank"
"Admiral..............":P:laugh:
Chekhov... That name seems familier... Not the same Chekhov as in Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun), is it?

Don't think so. I take it you are not a Star Trek fan? Pavel Chekhov (played by Walter Koenig) is one of the original crew of the original Star Trek series in the late 1960's, and of course in the movies Star Trek I through VI. TWD can give you a much more detailed history about him, I'm sure.:)
Jeriddian's correct. The character he's referring to, Pavel Chekov, first appeared on the original Star Trek series in the show's second season. He did indeed appear in the first six Trek movies, as well as in the beginning of the seventh film, Star Trek: Generations.
I think the "Chekhov" you're confusing him with is Anton Chekhov, the famous Russian author and playwright (1860-1904). :alumnus:
Oh, and in the scene you're referring to in Star Trek IV, Chekov wasn't under truth serum. He was coming out of anesthesia after Dr. McCoy successfully repaired his brain injury in that 20th-Century San Francisco hospital (after Admiral Kirk locked the surgical team in the closet and melted its lock with his phaser).

Oops...I stand corrected by our resident Star Trek guru.....:o:P

[lunchmeat]

On an all new episode of Kim Possible of the Federation:
Astroff and Marina discuss the implications of the Professor's return with Uncle Vanya.......

Meanwhile, Ron Stoppable and Boris Pasternak discuss illiteration in A Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovitch