Ghost in the Shell

[Fireand'chutes77]

I've been doing some reading about the series on Wikipedia for the past week or so, and seemed pretty interesting. Problem is, it only runs on Cartoon Network at, like, 4 AM.

So I bit the bullet slightly and got the first four or so episodes off of iTunes.

So far, the Major's dialogue is a little stiff (and I realize that's because she's mostly machine), but...... hot d***, that opening fight on the roof was cool! :cool: :thumbup:

Her voice sounds suspiciously like Leela's from "Futurama." Hmmm....

Kusanagi kinda-sorta-ish reminds me of Kim... only with something a little more revealing than a crop-top (:blink:) and a bit more powerful than a grappling gun... (:thumbup:)

So far, impressive. Animation has the "camera work" of a movie, and the lips are well-matched to the dialogue; there's very little "mouth flap."

Watching the second episode..... Is it just me, or does firing your tanks indoors seem like a *really* bad idea? :huh:

Goodness... the tanks on wheels looks kind weird when it moves.... like it's ice skating.

....And cute little tanks spouting out complex intellectual concepts with cute little kids' voices...... yeah, that takes some getting used to... :blink:

"Section 09" was certainly a good episode to start with; the others seem kinda slow. This is probably because I was expecting a military/paramilitary type show, while it's really more police work, with some "para-police" and SWAT-type activity thrown in. You can't have a world-shaking crisis every day of the week, I guess.

----

I'm finding it fascinating how you can see the echos of today's technology in the series.... Instant communication, everyone able to see the same things, part of a hive mind that anyone can edit?

Wikipedia.

Hacking a car's GPS system to give evidence of a road construction? In high-end cars today, there's equipment that does that and suggests an alternative route.... Of course, it can't be back-hacked..... yet.

Since we now have the 'leisure" and technology to study other animals besides our own kind (that is, we're not too busy with actual survival to look around), we're examining other species to see if they have things to teach us.... Hence the reason helicopters are looking like dragonflies and wind turbine blades may soon be wavy edges like a whale's fin....

The "spider" tanks are along those same ideas... I can't see how something with legs like that could be very fast, but.... NASA is doing research on the spider concept right now. :cool: Picture of ATHLETE lunar vehicle undergoing testing (http://nxtbot.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/nasa-athlete1.jpg).

-------------------
However, looking a little deeper into the series, I can see, from my beginner's perspective, what appear to be a few cracks in the shell. (:P) 2030 is way too early.... For this type of technological saturation to take place, it'd probably have to be at least 2060 or 2070.... Unless there was a massive war on the same technological-boosting scale as WWII (which, in a span of 5 years, gave us the plastics industry, the jet fighter, and the nuclear weapon) which relocated 2008-era technology to 1988.... since I think that's what happened, 2030 suddenly seems a bit more plausible.

I'm surprised by how quick some of the episodes seem; they feel shorter than a KP episode although they're the same length. Perhaps this is because GiTS stays mostly in one location and deals with one case while KP goes all over the world.

The dialogue still feels a little bit stilted, but I think that's simply a casualty of what happens when media is translated from one language to another.

The few episodes I've seen certainly work my brain... and bring up a few unsettling concepts. When you've got this much cybernetic enhancement, where does humanity end and robotics begin? How much living matter do you need to still be "human"? What do they do to the brain? (I did some research on the cyberbrains, and found out that the original brain is still there; it's just been put in a really fancy skull. That eleminated one question - do we still have brains, or is it just metal and wires?)

In the future, will humanity still bleed? Do we still have skin and bones, or we like the Bebes - tap our arms, and you'll hear a metal ping? How early does the cybernetic process start? Immediately after birth? Childhood? Once you've become an adult?

What's frightening is that the body has suddenly become expendable - as long as the brain remains intact.

And that wireless telepathy is a doozy of a concept. Are you really *able* to find what part of the brain is "thought," stick a few wires in it, hook those wires up to a wireless router, and start broadcasting? (They've been able to do something kinda similar with Deep Brain Stimulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_brain_stimulation) for depression patients - stick wires into a special part of the brain, turn on the electricity, and you can make a sad person smile and laugh.)

Or are 'thoughts' and 'consciousness' generated by the gray matter as a whole, and there's no definite place to stick a wire? And how are "thoughts" picked out from the billions of other electrical firings in our brains?

And how do we understand "language"? The Minister in "Section 9" was trying to read a barcode paper; how do you teach the brain to understand that? Is there a "language" port in the brain that you can tap to make it understand anything?

The way I understand it with the prosthetics, you’re simply swapping out “inputs.” For example, the perp in the opening roof fight could’ve gotten his arms and legs swapped out with prosthetics so he could run faster and fight harder. And for the “swapping bodies” stuff, you’re not really swapping minds – you’re just jacking into their “inputs-” eyes, ears, nervous system. What your brain sees actually isn’t reality – it’s just the wavelengths your eyes take in, transmit to your brain, and what your brain interprets…. And if you’re able to get access to that intermediate transmit stage...

--------

Since I’ve read something about the Major’s questioning about her own humanity, I’ve got "Bring Me to Life" by Evanescence running through my head as I watch the series...

http://www.metrolyrics.com/bring-me-to-life-lyrics-evanescence.html

How can you see into my eyes,
like open doors?
Leadin' you down into my core,
where I've become so numb....
Without a soul,
My spirit sleeping somewhere cold,
Until you find it there and lead it back
Home....

(Wake me up!)
Wake me up inside!
(Can't wake up!)
Wake me up inside!
(Save me!)
Call my name and save me from the dark!
(Wake me up!)
Bid my blood to run!
(Can't wake up!)
Before I come undone!
(Save me!)
Save me from the nothing I've become.....

Now that I know what I'm without,
You can't just leave...
Breathe into me and make me real;
Bring me...
To life!

(Wake me up)
Wake me up inside!

---------------------------------

The original techno song in the opening credits was cool for a first listen – but it’s kinda dull after repeated listening, and it’s not in English…

So using my AMV skills, I spliced a self-edited version of “Wake Me Up Inside” into the opening credits... I wasn’t able to get the transition between stanzas at 0:38 perfect, but I’m not an audio-editing expert and this was done on the quick…

My edited opener:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jxjm4tlyy2n

Original opener:

http://www.mediafire.com/?tygeb3ymvja

-----

Much better, IMHO.

----

Ooof. Know-nothing to fan in 72 hours. That was fast. :blink:

[canuck31003]

Edit. Delete.

Some of my favourite VAs are in GitS: SAC.

[Fireand'chutes77]

If you like GiTS: SAC then you should really try to watch the first season. Personally I thought SAC was a small let down compared to the 1st.
Well, I'm in the process... Yay iTunes! (And yay BitTorrent! ;) :D)

[canuck31003]

If you like GiTS: SAC then you should really try to watch the first season. Personally I thought SAC was a small let down compared to the 1st.
Well, I'm in the process... Yay iTunes! (And yay BitTorrent! ;) :D)

Oops. Sorry. I'd forgotten that both seasons are labeled SAC, but then I remembered so I edited my prior post... but now your post doesn't completely make sense.... :o.

Anywhoo, have you seen the original movie? If you've looked at Wikipedia, then you know the movie came first and the series is based on that, but obviously different, since at the end of the movie the Major kind of "retires"....

[Fireand'chutes77]

Oops. Sorry. I'd forgotten that both seasons are labeled SAC.... but now your post doesn't completely make sense.... :o.
What do you mean?

Anywhoo, have you seen the original movie? If you've looked at Wikipedia, then you know the movie came first and the series is based on that, but obviously different...
I have not, although I've read the wikipedia synop. It's my understanding that the three works - manga, anime, movies - exist in three different universes. It's three different interpretations of the same idea.

(And since Spielburg is interesting in making a live-action GitS, we may soon have four.)

From what I read about the original movie, it seemed *really* high-concept; hopefully the anime will be a bit less of a mind-bend, but, as evidenced by my first post, there's still plenty of room for "brain pain." ;)

[Mr Birthday]

Ah, Ghost In The Shell. I actually saw the first movie years ago. (Late 90's or very early in this decade, I don't remember which.) I also watched the first season (here and there) when it was on Adult Swim. I much preferred it to the movie. (By the way, 'chutes, the name for the series, Standalone Complex, is apparently derived from episodes falling into two categories; Standalone episodes (exactly what the name implies), and Complex episodes. (Which involve the Laughing Man Incident.) Now, I've only seen the first season, so I don't know what the Complex story arc is in The Second Gig. (AKA Season Two.)

By the way, 'chutes, if you have any questions about the first movie, go ahead and ask me. My memory isn't perfect, but I think I can answer most of them.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Ah, Ghost In The Shell. I actually saw the first movie years ago. (Late 90's or very early in this decade, I don't remember which.) I also watched the first season (here and there) when it was on Adult Swim. I much preferred it to the movie. (By the way, 'chutes, the name for the series, Standalone Complex, is apparently derived from episodes falling into two categories; Standalone episodes (exactly what the name implies), and Complex episodes. (Which involve the Laughing Man Incident.) Now, I've only seen the first season, so I don't know what the Complex story arc is in The Second Gig. (AKA Season Two.)

By the way, 'chutes, if you have any questions about the first movie, go ahead and ask me. My memory isn't perfect, but I think I can answer most of them.
I think the first movie came out in 1995, IIRC. (Dang, that seems like a long time ago!)

Just reading the movie synopsis on Wikipedia was a mind-warp.... Even so, the series is a bit hard to keep track of... They go fast. Wikipedia helps, but it's like a Bourne film when you're actually watching the episodes - you're either clicking, or you're going "wait... what?"

Searching around Google, I'm surprised I haven't found a site that gives detailed breakdowns of the episodes' major plot points for the "huh?" people... I get the gist, but some things in "Section 09," "Interceptor," and "Decoy" are head-scratchers... "Wait, how'd we get here?"

------


On an unrelated (somewhat preening :o) note, I think my song remix of the opening credits makes the surgical lights at 0:30 seem much more haunting... (they did for me, at least.)

[Mr Birthday]

I think the first movie came out in 1995, IIRC. (Dang, that seems like a long time ago!)

Yeah, I know. I was just saying when I saw it. I once rented the second movie, but when I found out that it didn't have an English language track, I ejected it and never watched it. I was not in the mood to read subtitles.

[canuck31003]

SAC has one of the better soundtracks. If I had to choose, I'd say Inner Universe and Lithium Flower are my favourites from this series.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Starz LLC seems to be especially tightwad about the use of their media, though - YouTube is apparently in cahoots with Starz, and they've put a copyright block on my credits-remix videos both times I've tried to upload them.

"Broadcast Yourself" my ***. :thumbdown:

And Starz seems to be specifically pegging the West....

Starz Media LLC has claimed some or all visual content in your video GiTS: SAC - opening credits remix. This claim was made as part of the YouTube Content Identification program.

Your video is no longer visible in some locations, because Starz Media LLC has chosen to block it.

Claim Details:

Copyright owner: Starz Media LLC

Content claimed: Some or all of the visual content

Policy: Block this content.

Applies to these locations: Canada, United States, United States Minor Outlying Islands, United States Virgin Islands

Starz Media LLC claimed this content as a part of the YouTube Content Identification program. YouTube allows partners to review YouTube videos for content to which they own the rights. Partners may use our automated video / audio matching system to identify their content, or they may manually review videos.I guess there aren't that many "Ghost in the Shell" fanvideos.... :dubiety:

It would have really been a problem for the KP fandom if Disney was this Draconian....

[jeriddian]

It would have really been a problem for the KP fandom if Disney was this Draconian....

Oh, I think they would have been if it was worth it to them.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Scribblings from "Meme" (episode 06):

I'm still not quite following everything that's going on, but dang, this episode cranks a potential slowdown back into "bad*** mode" very nicely. :cool:

Particularly impressive is the stonecold expression on the Chief's face (http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2623/13760451wr0.jpg) as he walks out on the PM after telling him about the latter's impending investigation.... followed by The Enforcer, Motoko, shutting the door after him. :thumbup: :cool:

Old Japanese people are so cool. :happy:

And the music that starts up at that point is cool.... violins and piano! Neat! :D

And is it just me, or does one move from this episode (http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/155/63097069bb4.jpg) seem very, very familiar to one from another (http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/3412/untitled3ph9.jpg)....? ;) :thumbup:

[Fireand'chutes77]

It's ironic - I begin to get into the world of "Ghost in the Shell" just a few days ago, and suddenly, coincidentally, there's all kinds of new news about technologies that could be forerunners to what's used in the show.

You've got quantum-mechanics research from the LCH that could lead to seamless global computing....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24556999/page/2/

....the Large Hadron Collider could usher in an era of global distributed computing and more efficient mass data storage. A better understanding of the subatomic world could lead to breakthroughs in quantum computing and super-secure communication....New-fangled invisibility cloaks made out of meta-materials....

http://www.photonics.com/content/news/2008/August/11/92819.aspx

...And prosthetic arms that are marching closer and closer to mimicking natural human function...

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/feb08/5957
http://gizmodo.com/394072/all-things-d-dean-kamen-on-his-mind+controlled-cyborg-luke-arm

...The control techniques are revolutionary. He's playing a video of a guy who didn't have both his arms for 18 years, and learned how to use the arms effectively in less than two dozen hours of training. He's showing a video that shows a guy who knows how to punch, pass a Ping Pong ball to his friend and pour a drink for another man who is holding a cup with the same type of arm. Then the video shows Chuck, the man with no arms, for the first time in 13 years, feeding himself cereal.

Now he's showing a video of a guy using the arm using only his MIND. He learned this technique in two days, but Dean says it was more like the system learned how to interface with the human.
....It's a mind-controlled robot arm! How cool is that?!! :thumbup:

(On a side note, the arm's inventor, Dean Kamen, also founded FIRST Robotics! :D)

[Fireand'chutes77]

Two words: Jungle Cruise.

:confused:

This probably.... wasn't the best one to listen to with the high-def surround-sound headphones.... Brrrr.....

Interestingly, I partially removed my headphones at almost the exact same time Togusa reacted....

While the episode is on par with your average CSI episode, as an American I'm not very used to seeing stuff like that rendered into animated form. With real-life people, this kind of twistedness is, sadly, something of an everyday occurrence. To see it backward-reflected in cartoons is.... jarring.

No love for the Yanks, eh? :dubiety: But then, it's not exactly like we've ever deserved it, especially with our CIA record... :thumbdown:

(But nice "did-your-homework" bonus - the fiber-optic cables lining the sewer walls *would* sever communications; one of the good things about them is that they allow no 'crosstalk' between the cores, letting you place many of them side-by-side without interference.... If you made an entire arch of them, I suppose they could act like a Faraday cage. Well done. :thumbup: )

[Fireand'chutes77]

Watching the series, there seem to be some things about the technology I don't understand.

If all the members of Section 09 are able to communicate 'telepathically,' what is the point of verbally communicating with each other? Is it because the very act of speaking what you're thinking helps formulate what you're actually trying to say?

And even when they're communicating wirelessly, why do they sometimes verbally shout the commands, even though they don't need to? (An example: a member audibly yells "Major!" even though the Major may be a hundred miles away, but continues the rest of the statement in wireless mode.) Do old verbal habits really die that hard?

And if the Major, with the exception of her brain and part of her spinal cord, is 100% mechanical, how are her eyes able to cry? (such as in "Escape_From") Have the scientists somehow been able to reverse-engineer tiny tear-ducts, and were thoughtful enough to include a little reservoir of water with a little pump that activates once the pump registers a certain "if-then" level of emotional electrical activity from a certain part of the brain?

EDIT: Disregard the above paragraph. I just realized that it was an 'avatar' representing her consciousness that was crying, not her actual blood-and-bolts body. The ponder below is still valid, though.

And if her eyes are cybernetic, why don't they look like Batou's? Are hers more top-of-the-line, and thus more realistic, while Batou's are no-frills military issue?

[canuck31003]

I think you've posited plausible answers to your questions.

As for why bother speaking, perhaps it helps prevent "noise". eg. At the same time telling Batou to bust in the door the Major could also be wondering what she'll have for dinner. Batou probably doesn't need to know that. Though... heck, maybe Batou would like to know.

Anywhoo, my favourite character is probably Togusa, then the Major. Though it flips back and forth depending on the episode.

Batou... I think he's an interesting character, but I wouldn't be upset if he was written out of the show.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Batou... I think he's an interesting character, but I wouldn't be upset if he was written out of the show.
Hmm, I like him. He has an interesting backstory, and the contrast between his physical frame and his attitude is cool.


------

More jaw-dropping "real life" GiTS tech:

Bionic contact lenses (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22731631/)

....Adding displays directly onto the lenses, visible to the wearers but no one else, could project critical information onto windshields for drivers or pilots or superimpose computer images onto real-world objects for training exercises. And with a wireless connection to the Internet, the lenses could allow bus or train riders to surf the Web on virtual screens suspended in midair.:surprised: :D :D :D

(Why there isn't a GiTS reference at that point, I have no idea. :laugh:)

Yeesh, this show starts to corrupt you..... You start seeing the future everywhere. ;) :thumbup:

[Fireand'chutes77]

Well, I've finished 1st Gig.

:blink: :blink: :biggergrin: :scared: :thumbup: :cool: :surprised: :confused: :cool: :cool: :thumbup:

I think the two final-climax episodes can be summed up in a single word: KAAA-BLAAAMMMMM! :blink:

Oh, yes, and: "Headshot!" :ohmy:

Equal parts "Oh yeah!" and "Oh ----!"

----

"I'm sorry. But I had to hack your eyes, pal."

Batou's deadpan delivery pwns all. :thumbup: :laugh:

---

"...Goodbye, Mr. Batou."

:cry:

---

I was a little irked by the "reset button" (in a sense) ending, but now that I think it over, I'm warming to it. Not too much action in the final episode, but it ties up lose ends nicely and sets the stage for 2nd Gig.

There are still some "Wait, :huh:?" moments.... To the reruns, Batman! :laugh:

[Cody MacArthur Fett]

Well, I'm still stuck on the second episode (thanks to a lack of funds), so please 'Chutes, no spoilers!

[Fireand'chutes77]

As though it weren't clear before, after watching episode #14 of 2nd Gig ("DI: Beware the Left Eye – POKER_FACE") it is confirmed - the. Major. is. one. BAMF. :surprised: :biggergrin: :cool: :cool: :thumbup:

That final sentence must be read slowly and clearly, in the style of Samuel L. Jackson. :thumbup:

Exhibit A (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/306/bamfln6.jpg)

Exhibit B (http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/338/glanceem4.jpg)

(Don't worry - no spoilers. Just awesomeness. :happy:)

...And why doesn't TVTropes have a BAMF page?! :huh:


-------------

...And has the Major (http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6231/majclothesfl4.jpg) been raiding Kim's closet (http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5674/majkclothesmf3.jpg)? :laugh: (Yay Photoshop! :D)

[TransWarpDrive]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it. The other three worked just fine, however.
And I see what you mean regarding the Major's outfit - it does resemble the former mission clothes of a certain red-headed cheerleader we all know and love... :P

[Fireand'chutes77]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it.
I think I've fixed it. I don't know what was causing the time-out problem.

[TransWarpDrive]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it.
I think I've fixed it. I don't know what was causing the time-out problem.
WOW! You certainly did... :dribble:
I can see why you think she's "one. BAMF." :biggergrin:
EDIT: Now why can't I ever meet girls like that?
*Sigh* Ol' TransWarp loves the ladies, but the ladies don't love him...
It's not easy being an aging bachelor...:laugh:

[Fireand'chutes77]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it.
I think I've fixed it. I don't know what was causing the time-out problem.
WOW! You certainly did... :dribble:
I can see why you think she's "one. BAMF." :biggergrin:
Heh. ;)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/853/majorey1.jpg


....And you thought Kim's super-suit pan was scary. :thumbup: :cool:

[TransWarpDrive]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it.
I think I've fixed it. I don't know what was causing the time-out problem.
WOW! You certainly did... :dribble:
I can see why you think she's "one. BAMF." :biggergrin:
Heh. ;)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/853/majorey1.jpg


....And you thought Kim's super-suit pan was scary. :thumbup: :cool:

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be looking up at anyone - gorgeous girl or not - who's leveling a weapon like that at me. :unsure:

[Fireand'chutes77]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it.
I think I've fixed it. I don't know what was causing the time-out problem.
WOW! You certainly did... :dribble:
I can see why you think she's "one. BAMF." :biggergrin:
Heh. ;)
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/853/majorey1.jpg


....And you thought Kim's super-suit pan was scary. :thumbup: :cool:

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be looking up at anyone - gorgeous girl or not - who's leveling a weapon like that at me. :unsure:
For that pic, realize that she's missing her other arm; she reloads the bolt-action by using her knee and the force of the recoil. Even considering the fact that she is a full-on cyborg, the scene borders on absurd. But is it jaw-droppingly awesome? Yes, oh yes, oh yes.... :thumbup:

[TransWarpDrive]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it.
I think I've fixed it. I don't know what was causing the time-out problem.
WOW! You certainly did... :dribble:
I can see why you think she's "one. BAMF." :biggergrin:
Heh. ;)
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/853/majorey1.jpg


....And you thought Kim's super-suit pan was scary. :thumbup: :cool:

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be looking up at anyone - gorgeous girl or not - who's leveling a weapon like that at me. :unsure:
For that pic, realize that she's missing her other arm; she reloads the bolt-action by using her knee and the force of the recoil. Even considering the fact that she is a full-on cyborg, the scene borders on absurd. But is it jaw-droppingly awesome? Yes, oh yes, oh yes.... :thumbup:

You know, I just thought of something: an appropriate title to that picture might be something along the lines of, "Winning Through Intimidation."
:laugh:

[Fireand'chutes77]

'Chutes, the link for "Exhibit A" in your last post wouldn't open for me - it kept "timing out" whenever I clicked on it.
I think I've fixed it. I don't know what was causing the time-out problem.
WOW! You certainly did... :dribble:
I can see why you think she's "one. BAMF." :biggergrin:
Heh. ;)
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/853/majorey1.jpg


....And you thought Kim's super-suit pan was scary. :thumbup: :cool:

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be looking up at anyone - gorgeous girl or not - who's leveling a weapon like that at me. :unsure:
For that pic, realize that she's missing her other arm; she reloads the bolt-action by using her knee and the force of the recoil. Even considering the fact that she is a full-on cyborg, the scene borders on absurd. But is it jaw-droppingly awesome? Yes, oh yes, oh yes.... :thumbup:

You know, I just thought of something: an appropriate title to that picture might be something along the lines of, "Winning Through Intimidation."
:laugh:
:laugh:

If you're interested in what you see, I recommend checking the series out - it's available for purchase on iTunes and can be viewed for free on some websites. It's done in anime style, as the screencaps show, but there is none, repeat none, of that cheap crap that anime usually tries to pull (sweat drops, blush patches, facepalms, etc) - this gig is professionally done, and the animation and backgrounds are gorgeous. At times the dialogue seems a slight bit stiff, and the mouth-syching isn't always perfect, but I think that's simply an inevitable casualty when a show is redone in another language, and it isn't a show-stopper at all.

The series is violent and rather bloody, not to mention sensual (Exhibit A: The Major), but those attributes are on par with a Jason Bourne film, and the series gives your brain a workout that equals, if not surpasses, Bourne.

Often, the bloodless episodes far outnumber the bloody ones; I'd initially expected a military/paramilitary type show, but it's really more police work, with some "para-police" and SWAT-type activity thrown in. You can't have a world-shaking crisis every day of the week, after all.

[canuck31003]

The first season of GitS has to be one of the best anime out there. It's a refreshing change from another 14 year old saving the world and/or universe, appealing as that may be sometimes (except Shinji -- the day I like Shinji is the day my corpse is cremated).

Another great anime, if you're not looking for 14 year old saviors, is Serei no Moribito, which I think is currently airing as Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit in North America. A couple of the things that appeal to me about it are that there are no "bad guys", and the fight choreography is amazing -- though the series doesn't depend on fights to keep it going. It often uses silence and observation to tell the story, not dialogue.

Anywhoo, back on thread topic, one of the things I like about GitS is the whole question of what makes a human a person.

[Fireand'chutes77]

It's a refreshing change from another 14 year old saving the world and/or universe.
But.... :huh:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7587/pdvd368wc5.jpg

:P :laugh:

[canuck31003]

Yeah, but at 14 Kim was saving cats in trees and millionaires -- I don't think she'd quite gotten up to saving the world, yet :laugh:

[Fireand'chutes77]

Rewatching "Barrage." (*Sniff* :cry:)

During the climatic scene involving the Tachikomas, I realized something - the name of God, to my knowledge, is only invoked twice* over the course of the entire 1st season. And both times, it a robot who brought it up...

Interesting.




*And the first usage was only as a metaphor as part of the Tachikoma's reasoning process.

Tachikoma: "....It just seems like the Major is angry about what we've acquired recently... You know... [shuffles nervously] ...Individuality."

Batou: "In...dividuality?"

Tachikoma: "And, you know, that 'existence of God' thing that I had trouble understanding before? I think I'm starting to understand it now. Maybe, just maybe, it's a concept that's similar to a zero in mathematics. In other words, it's a symbol that denies the absence of meaning, the meaning that's necessitated by the delineation of one system from another. In analog, that's God. In digital, it's zero.

...So, for the time being, no matter how much data we accumulate, we'll never have a Ghost. But analog-based people like you, Batou-san, no matter how many digital components you add through cyberization or prosthetics, your Ghost will never be damaged. Plus, you can even die, 'cause you've got a Ghost. You're so lucky! Tell me, how does it feel to have a Ghost?"

Batou: .... :huh:Me: :huh:

[Cody MacArthur Fett]

Rewatching "Barrage." (*Sniff* :cry:)

During the climatic scene involving the Tachikomas, I realized something - the name of God, to my knowledge, is only invoked twice* over the course of the entire 1st season. And both times, it a robot who brought it up...

Interesting.




*And the first usage was only as a metaphor as part of the Tachikoma's reasoning process.

Tachikoma: "....It just seems like the Major is angry about what we've acquired recently... You know... *shuffles nervously* ...Individuality."

Batou: "In...dividuality?"

Tachikoma: "And, you know, that 'existence of God' thing that I had trouble understanding before? I think I'm starting to understand it now. Maybe, just maybe, it's a concept that's similar to a zero in mathematics. In other words, it's a symbol that denies the absence of meaning, the meaning that's necessitated by the delineation of one system from another. In analog, that's God. In digital, it's zero.

...So, for the time being, no matter how much data we accumulate, we'll never have a Ghost. But analog-based people like you, Batou-san, no matter how many digital components you add through cyberization or prosthetics, your Ghost will never be damaged. Plus, you can even die, cause you've got a Ghost. You're so lucky! Tell me, how it feels to have a Ghost?"

Batou: .... :huh:Me: :blink: :huh:
That's not surprising. Because (and you can tell I'm a metaphysical storyteller mood) we as humans have for the most part lost touch with our humanity. We've lost touch with our faith; we've lost touch with our common sense; we've lost touch with our compassion; we lost touch with the fundamental principle that make us who we are for the sake of "societal advancement". And in science fiction robots are often used as a story analogy for this, and they are used to remind the main characters and their society (often a dystopia) of what it means to be human, for while the main characters are loosing their humanity robots are learning more about it and becoming more and more human. And as a famous philosopher, whose name escapes me at the moment (was it Pilus the Elder? :huh:), once said: "Every living creature has, endowed within them, the knowledge of god." (Note lower case.)

So it doesn't surprise me one bit that the Tachikomas say that. :happy:

[Fireand'chutes77]

More proto-GiTS Tech, this time from "Popular Science:"

You know how people like the Major or the Laughing Man could hack into people's brains and force people to do what they wanted?

Well.... (http://www.popsci.com/elizabeth-svoboda/article/2008-10/neural-puppeteer) :errr:


...When a lab tech presses a lever, blue light shoots through the fiber, and the mouse -- which had been sauntering straight ahead -- starts to run in circles. "He's doing that because the blue light turns the neural circuit on," Deisseroth explains. "As soon as we stop the stimulation, he'll walk straight again."

...Deisseroth has devised a way to activate and deactivate the neurons as easily as flipping a switch....

Deisseroth has no interest in a 21st-century mind-control campaign, however. He's trying to get a handle on the fundamentals of brain function. When he turns his neural circuits on and off, he can observe exactly what behaviors those circuits control.... Deisseroth's fibers will let researchers explore what the brain does on a neuron-by-neuron level.... Using light to map the function of neural circuits will allow scientists, for the first time, to really know how the brain works.



-----

Military person to Motoko: "What've you got, sixteen squared?"

He's referring, I think, to the number of artificial nerve endings in her "skin," and it means there are 256 nerve endings per square centimeter of material. I think the GITS crew got their math wrong, though - on average, humans have about 400 nerve endings per sq. cm, or "twenty squared," and the episode's context indicated that she was much more sensitive than a normal person.

In any case, we're getting closer to "x squared..." (http://www.popsci.com/inspired-nature/article/2008-10/making-skin-robots)

--------

As for the final tech, I couldn't find it online, so I'm transcribing it from the Popsci article:

This first thing from the table is for helping speech-impared people speak, but it reminded me of the attack barriers that GiTS people clamp around their necks.
Computer Speech
- What is it? A lightweight wireless neck device that helps people with speech disorders talk.
- On sale? Next month
- How does it work? The device adheres to the skin above the voicebox. It reads nerve signals and sends them via Bluetooth to a computer sythesizer, which processes them into audible speech.


This second tech was designed for people with spinal cord injuries, but I imagined that it might be the groundwork for how people control their avatars on the 3D web.

Mind Control
- What is it? A brain interface that lets people with muscles disorders, spinal-cord injuries, or serious carpal-tunnel syndrome control a keyboard just by thinking about it.
- On sale? Not yet, but the technology, developed at the Keio University in Japan, helped a paralysis patient take the world's first online virtual walk in May.
- How does it work? Electrodes intercept brain signals that control limb movement and send them to a laptop. The computer translates the signals into keyboard commands to let users move a Second Life avatar.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Gah (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27162401/). :surprised:

No surprise that the military is backing this....

I wonder if telepathy really does sound echoic like it does in the show? ;)

==========

EDIT:

The problem: All the various gadgets, implants, and prosthetics in the GiTS universe's people will use a relatively large amount of electrical power.

One solution: batteries. While they are getting smaller, they are still bulky, get hot, and are inconvenient to implant and replace. Once the charge runs down, they must be recharged or replaced. The pack must be built as a seperate part of the body, and a space must be allocated for it.

A more elegant solution: Turn the entire body into a living battery (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27308292/). :blink:

The best part is, since the electrical generators need sugar to operate, doctors would probably start telling us to "eat more sugar! Have a candy bar!" :laugh:

...

On second thought, though, the concept of "body as battery" seems disturbingly Matrix-like. :unsure:

[jeriddian]

That's not surprising. Because (and you can tell I'm a metaphysical storyteller mood) we as humans have for the most part lost touch with our humanity. We've lost touch with our faith; we've lost touch with our common sense; we've lost touch with our compassion; we lost touch with the fundamental principle that make us who we are for the sake of "societal advancement".

Not true, Cody. Your view is extremely myopic and condescending, which neither you nor any other human being is in the position of being able to rightfully claim that platform. That you think most of us humans have lost their faith is a shortsighted and cynical judgement based in error off of your own lack of faith in humanity (as you yourself have stated), due to your own youth and inexperience, and simply because you have lost faith doesn't mean the rest of us have. That lack of faith on your part blinds you and doesn't allow you to see the compassion and common sense that people do have in general. I can understand how you may feel that way, as it is not an uncommon feeling by many, put on by the tribulations in this world, but it still doesn't make it true. And as to what is the fundamental priniciple that makes us who we are, since you have not delineated that, you may find you are mistaken in what you think it is. But that is part of learning. You are only sixteen or seventeen, and have a ways to go in learning about life.

And in science fiction robots are often used as a story analogy for this, and they are used to remind the main characters and their society (often a dystopia) of what it means to be human, for while the main characters are loosing their humanity robots are learning more about it and becoming more and more human. And as a famous philosopher, whose name escapes me at the moment (was it Pilus the Elder? :huh:), once said: "Every living creature has, endowed within them, the knowledge of god." (Note lower case.)

A saying which can be interpreted very broadly and in many different ways.

Pliny the Elder (if he was who you meant. There is no "Pilus" I know of or could find. Remarkably, "Pilus" is latin for "hair") was a Roman military officer and naturalist, also an encyclopedist, famous for his treatise, The Natural History, a text often described as a description of creation itself as he saw it then in the first century AD. But he was not a monotheist, being a product of his times in those terms. However, his religious beliefs are no consequence as they were completely subjugated by his intense dedication to scientific observation, logic, and deduction in classical Greek sense. He therefore made no mention of a single "god".

[Fireand'chutes77]

That you think most of us humans have lost their faith is a shortsighted and cynical judgement based in error off of your own lack of faith in humanity (as you yourself have stated), due to your own youth and inexperience, and simply because you have lost faith doesn't mean the rest of us have.... But that is part of learning. You are only sixteen or seventeen, and have a ways to go in learning about life.
"The soul makes its own horizons; your soul is, presently, dark, which is why you see such a cloudy sky.... Remember, though, that there always is a dawn.”
- The Count of Monte Cristo

However, his religious beliefs are no consequence as they were completely subjugated by his intense dedication to scientific observation, logic, and deduction in classical Greek sense.Is it your view that those two mutually exclusive?

========


The 2nd Gig continues...

Most recently: "Red Data"

(No idea why it’s called that, but it’s such a cool name! ^_^)

This episode was somewhat... odd. Not "Cash Eye" odd, but the Major is certainly a bit warped. Not to mention a bit kinky. (But you knew that already, didn't you? ;P :P)

It also answers, in a roundabout way, one of the bedrock questions that pop into one's brain several seconds after hearing the phrase "full body cyborg." (He gets cold feet at the last minute, though.)

-----

The Major sometimes teeters on Mary Sue category, because of all her upgrades.... but I really don't care. :P


*Motoko crashes a drug raid to save a hostage*

Thug: …Who do you think you are?!

*Motoko one-handedly pulls out her pistol to complement the Micro-Uzi in her other fist (http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5991/akimbomq0.jpg). She smiles, in a way that only one word is needed to describe it: owned.*

---------

The following episode is "Trans_Parent." Focuses more of Batou, takes place in Berlin. It's certainly deeper than "Red Data," and the musical score really wrenches at you. The ending is almost heartbreaking.... very effective voicework and animation.

The visuals for this one are breathtaking.... During stakeout scenes in a December Berlin, with snow falling, you can almost feel the bitter cold and the sting of the wind.

[lunchmeat]

Fireand'chutes77 Gah.

No surprise that the military is backing this....

I wonder if telepathy really does sound echoic like it does in the show?



Those wacky DARPA guys. Actually this one has been kicked about for a long time, both in the research world and science fiction (the original cyberpunk genre). there are a lot of potential military applications for this, ranging from maintaining a sense of the battle space to fire control. It could also lead to a number of medical breakthroughs in things like artificial limbs amopg others (Geordie's special glasses could become a reality). Another possibility is amplification of the basic human body in this sort of vein: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman . Personally I think the amplification bit would be pretty cool, there is so much to explore in areas of extreme environment and great distance that this would be realy neat. Being able to acrry an entire university reference library around in your head would be really handy.

That's not surprising. Because (and you can tell I'm a metaphysical storyteller mood) we as humans have for the most part lost touch with our humanity. We've lost touch with our faith; we've lost touch with our common sense; we've lost touch with our compassion; we lost touch with the fundamental principle that make us who we are for the sake of "societal advancement".

The question one would ask is faith in what? I'm not sure this is a necessary prerequisite to humanity. I know a great deal of non-religious people who are quite compassionate and an equal number of religious folks who are quite the reverse. It doesn't seem to have much bearing one way or another. A great deal probably hinges on what one defines faith as.

Pliny the Elder (if he was who you meant. There is no "Pilus" I know of or could find. Remarkably, "Pilus" is latin for "hair") was a Roman military officer and naturalist, also an encyclopedist, famous for his treatise, The Natural History, a text often described as a description of creation itself as he saw it then in the first century AD. But he was not a monotheist, being a product of his times in those terms. However, his religious beliefs are no consequence as they were completely subjugated by his intense dedication to scientific observation, logic, and deduction in classical Greek sense. He therefore made no mention of a single "god".

Not mention getting the chop during the eruption of Vesuvius that buried Pompey and Herculinium, while serving as admiral of the rescue fleet. One of the reasons we have such a good picture of what happened was due to his taking excellent notes and handing them to his son to remove from the area.

Guess I'll have to watch this one one of these days. I don't think we currently get it on our selection of channels. On a faintly related note, it appears that Cartoon Network is going to be showing 6 Teen in the afternoons come November.

[Fireand'chutes77]

Those wacky DARPA guys.
:laugh:

See my above post about the DARPA/Dean Kamen robotic arm....

The DARPA people show up at the FIRST Robotics local regionals as well as the Global Championship in Georgia to talk about and inspire us with their technology projects..... They've got some pretty crazy stuff. :blink: :D

Guess I'll have to watch this one one of these days.
I think there's a good chance you'd enjoy it. :)

I don't think we currently get it on our selection of channels.
IIRC, it's shown on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, but at some absurd time of night - 4 AM or something.

EDIT: Upon further examination, I don't think it's even running on Adult Swim any more. If it is, then it's not in this week's schedule.

However, episodes can be found on iTunes and Google; they can be watched for free on Google sites, but the quality probably wouldn't be as good as iTunes. It's very important to watch some of the episodes in order, as they build off each other. The first few episodes in the first season, not so much, but IMHO, it's best to start at the beginning with the episode called "Section 9."

[jeriddian]

That you think most of us humans have lost their faith is a shortsighted and cynical judgement based in error off of your own lack of faith in humanity (as you yourself have stated), due to your own youth and inexperience, and simply because you have lost faith doesn't mean the rest of us have.... But that is part of learning. You are only sixteen or seventeen, and have a ways to go in learning about life.
"The soul makes its own horizons; your soul is, presently, dark, which is why you see such a cloudy sky.... Remember, though, that there always is a dawn.”
- The Count of Monte Cristo

Which to me supports the point is that Cody's statements above in general see absolutely no dawn at all.

[However, his religious beliefs are no consequence as they were completely subjugated by his intense dedication to scientific observation, logic, and deduction in classical Greek sense.Is it your view that those two mutually exclusive?

Oh, not at all. My intent was to simply show that Pliny's religious beliefs, whatever they were, had no relevence to the question at hand.

There are many scientists who are fervently religious. But the true scientist understands that in order for science to be valid, it must conform to the procedures of reason and logic, such as Koch's postulates, that have been laid out for now for hundreds of years in order to validate our scientific discoveries, and as we know, the precepts of faith, and the structural tenets that house faith which we know as religion, are based on completely non-scientific concepts and ideas. That is the very nature of faith. Nobody can prove those beliefs as true, but you still believe. That is faith. And this is very well and good. But its very nature excludes it in the strictest sense from the practice of science.

But science is finite by the very nature of our mortality and limited senses in what it can do as well. It's great asset is that it allows us to an extent to verify certain knowledge as fact, something that can be relied upon in our use of it. But science also knows there are some things it cannot do, and in this instance it respects the unknown which we cannot determine, such as an omnipotent Almighty Being. Science recognizes its shortcomings in this, and the true scientist, speaking strictly as a scientist, will not say there is or there isn't a God, but there is no reason that a scientist cannot say there is a God. He can certainly say there is a God, simply because he has faith, and thus science, and faith in God, held in the proper contexts, are certainly able to coexist.

Not mention getting the chop during the eruption of Vesuvius that buried Pompey and Herculinium, while serving as admiral of the rescue fleet. One of the reasons we have such a good picture of what happened was due to his taking excellent notes and handing them to his son to remove from the area.

Correct. Although I will qualify that his "son" was his adopted son, who was actually his nephew by his sister, Plinia, and was known as Pliny the Younger. Pliny the Elder himself never married or had children.

[lunchmeat]

IIRC, it's shown on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, but at some absurd time of night - 4 AM or something.

EDIT: Upon further examination, I don't think it's even running on Adult Swim any more. If it is, then it's not in this week's schedule.

However, episodes can be found on iTunes and Google; they can be watched for free on Google sites, but the quality probably wouldn't be as good as iTunes. It's very important to watch some of the episodes in order, as they build off each other. The first few episodes in the first season, not so much, but IMHO, it's best to start at the beginning with the episode called "Section 9."


Figures, while my lab is amazingly flexible, they do like me to show up and do something once in awhile. This is one of the reasons that the only time I see KP, sans video tapes and DVDs, is when there is a long holiday and I can stay up real late.

Correct. Although I will qualify that his "son" was his adopted son, who was actually his nephew by his sister, Plinia, and was known as Pliny the Younger. Pliny the Elder himself never married or had children.

the Italians should have sprung for a better translator on the handouts we got when I was at the two sites, then again, southern Italy is pretty casual:laugh:

Oh, not at all. My intent was to simply show that Pliny's religious beliefs, whatever they were, had no relevence to the question at hand.


Yeah, we really don't do metaphysics, so the question doesn't really even come up.

[canuck31003]

What jeriddian said.

To put it coarsely, science is based in part on making observations of natural events and often on taking some measure of those events, whether they be qualitative or quantitative. Religion is based on faith and spirituality. As such neither science nor religion says anything about the other.

[TransWarpDrive]

What jeriddian said.

To put it coarsely, science is based in part on making observations of natural events and often on taking some measure of those events, whether they be qualitative or quantitative. Religion is based on faith and spirituality. As such neither science nor religion says anything about the other.
Indeed. Religion is based on faith; whereas science is about finding the facts through empirical research. The late Carl Sagan had this to say about science in the book version of his mini-series Cosmos:
There is no other species on Earth that does science. It is, so far, entirely a human invention, evolved by natural selection in the cerebral cortex for one simple reason: it works. It is not perfect. It can be misused. It is only a tool. But it is by far the best tool we have, self-correcting, ongoing, applicable to everything. It has two rules. First: there are no sacred truths; all assumptions must be critically examined; arguments from authority are worthless. Second: whatever is inconsistent with the facts must be discarded or revised. We must understand the Cosmos as it is and not confuse how it is with how we wish it to be. The obvious is sometimes false; the unexpected is sometimes true. Humans everywhere share the same goals when the context is large enough. And the study of the Cosmos provides the largest possible context. Present global culture is a kind of arrogant newcomer. It arrives on the planetary stage following four and a half billion years of other acts, and after looking about for a few thousand years declares itself in possession of eternal truths. But in a world that is changing as fast as ours, this is a prescription for disaster. No nation, no religion, no economic system, no body of knowledge, is likely to have all the answers for our survival. There must be many social systems that would work far better than any now in existence. In the scientific tradition, our task is to find them.
(The words are Dr. Sagan's; the highlighting of certain sections in bold-face type is my doing, for emphasis. -TWD)

[Fireand'chutes77]

Weird, here's a recent real-life example of a "stand-alone complex:"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27404513/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27404513/)

...UC Santa Cruz literature professor Mary Kay Gammel had a profound, personal lesson about political rumors last month after forwarding an e-mail she had received titled "My Vacation With John McCain" to three friends asking what they thought of it.

The e-mail, which was not written by Gammel and which McCain's campaign said is "100 percent false," described a boorish and crass McCain on a vacation in Fiji in 2000. The e-mail was forwarded to thousands of people, and along the way the author's name was deleted and the Gammel's name was added as the author of it.

"Then things really went wild," said Gammel, who is on sabbatical this year. Her phone rang nonstop and thousands of e-mails poured in for which she set up an automatic response explaining that she was not the author of the letter and did not know if it was true. She said she tried, herself, to track the source of the rumor hoped someone would research it to find out whether it was true.

The email's originator has not been found.

[Fireand'chutes77]

I finally got around to seeing the original "Ghost in the Shell...."

Kinda trippy. :hmm:

Spoilers below; ye be warned. Arrrrr.














After reading the movie's synopsis on Wikipedia a while ago and forming my own mental picture about what happened... the reality was somewhat unexpected.

I saw what was coming - or at least I thought I did - and both heads got blown off. I'd assumed that Motoko and the Puppetmaster had escaped to the safety of the Net and merged right before the triggers pulled... I didn't see that "reborn in another body" thing coming. I thought they would've existed as a unique Ghost on the Internet, without a body, hence the ending phrase "the Net is vast and infinite." The fact she's existing again in a physical form strips away some of the haunting-ness about the quote....

I also hadn't expected the Puppetmaster's voice to be so deep and Michael Clarke Duncan-like. I'd expected something higher and more computerized.

The movie seemed to meander around, not really digging too deep into any one point, and by the end I looked back on the hour and a half and bemusedly thought, "Wait... how'd we get here?" They seemed to break out into unnaturally long expositions without any lead-up... the anime was guilty of this too, but at least it wasn't as jarring.

Good God.... that opening song.... that opening song was seriously disturbing. :blink: Waaaaayyy too high-pitched for me....

The Major was well-done, but I prefer the anime version. Black-haired Motoko was a lot more machine-like, her voice colder, sharper, more clipped. The cybercom voices were a lot more unnerving in the movie's version.... more distorted and computerized. The lack of blinking on the part of the Major was chilling, this time in a good way. By the scuba-diving scene, it's got you seriously rattled. I found myself thinking at the screen, Blink... Blink! Blink, dammit, blink!

It's not a problem at all with Batou's eyes; they're obviously far out of the Uncanny Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley), so your brain is comfortable with them not doing human things. The Major's eyes drop right into it, though... Despite the fact they flash in the light, they look human enough that your brain keeps wanting them to act human.... and when they don't, it's freaky. I don't think the Major's eyes blink in the anime, either, but there are fewer scenes spent staring directly at them.

The animation was decent, but I was slightly disappointed by the heavy use of stock sound effects - namely, the twing! of ricocheting bullets and, even, the schwing! sound of a drawn blade. I suppose that had something to do with the times and technology - it was 1995, after all. Perhaps the 2008 remaster is better.

I found the different levels of GUI technology in the movie and the anime an interesting contrast. GiTS:SAC is the technology we dream of: flawless holograms, flashy computers, the best equipment money can buy. GiTS the movie is what we're likely to get: bare-bones, low-resolution graphics in monochrome green running on old, "squeaking" computers. The computer operating spaces are cramped, dark, dingy, and littered with wires.


I'd recommend watching the anime first, and then the movie. That way, you'll get the anime's version of the Major ingrained in your mind, and Motoko will only seem to be acting odd for 90 minutes, instead of 2 whole seasons. Also, if you watch both seasons first, you'll be able to pick up on the origins of some of the series's animation sequences a lot better - "Ah! So that's where that came from!"

When the anime first came out, and people were watching it for the first time after seeing only the movie - while there were still no plot synopsizes to be viewed on Wikipedia - I'll bet people were freaking out about some of the anime's animation sequences, since they replicated many of the key points in the movie but went in different directions. :laugh: :thumbup:

BTW - was the Major in the movie and the little girl in "Barrage" voiced by the same person, Mimi Woods? The movie's voice was instantly recognizable, but I didn't quite pin it down until now.


--------------

On a secondary note, I was rewatching the movie's scuba diving scene and I was reminded briefly of Kim's wetsuit wardrobe exchange from "So the Drama." It's highly unlikely that the latter was inspired by the former, but I have to wonder if the KP Krew ever saw "GiTS..."

The GiTS scene:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mxxy1y2s02m

(Content advisory: the clip contains one minor swear word and brief partial dorsal nudity, probably not much more than Shego's cocktail dress.)

The KP scene:

http://www.mediafire.com/?yzykdwjnxcm


I assure you, this exercise was purely academic. :P :innocent:

More significant, perhaps, is Batou's mission outfit at the end of the movie: black shirt, gray pants, black gloves, blonde hair (sadly no molerat).

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3011/batouroneb2.jpg

[Fireand'chutes77]

Update from an earlier post (http://www.globaljusticealliance.com/board/showthread.php?p=16468#post16468):

Visible-light blocking invisibility cloak could be ready in 6 months (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28679694/)

:blink: :blink:

Invisible suits and armaments, here we come.....

Best of all, it'd be dirt-cheap! :laugh: